88 hire eh?

 

I'm sure your fo's are liking you on Facebook and you are trending.

You choose the $39 million furlough carve out as your justification for your vote. A 10% portion of the total agreement for your vote.

I feel the $39 million could be funded through other vehicles thereby allowing a true vote on the merits of this extension. I'm confident if this extension is voted down, the affected furloughed pilots will be made whole. I also believe that a vote in favour of this extension will more negatively impact the junior pilots for the future contractual cycles we position them.

 

Your comment doesn't even make sense. Why would ALPA hold a company paid benefit? Why would you not be interested in regaining some sort of pension? Are you just okay with the fact that %78 of the pilots were manipulated into voting yes to give away your pension? This is the ONLY reason you don't have a pension.

 

[QUOTE=b52dthdlr;2043593]So your logic is that anyone who is beleaguered by portions of a contract that affects their quality of life must be because they are an idiot who failed bidding 101 or just chose to bid something that offers them a lesser quality of life. Forget trying to change something even if it encompasses a process so fraught with inequities ( Railway Labor Act). The attitude of get what we can now has been perpetuated at UAL since 1981 and the "Blue Skies Contract." When in fact the only real gains this group has ever substantiated was when we were willing to stay the course, draw a line and say enough is enough. What better time to do this than record profits and leverage on our side. What are you so scared of? What is it about money now that lures us into thinking we are getting the best deal we can.

 

I'm a double furloughee. Thank you for sticking up for us on this TA.

LearJet Driver

 

I don't know of anyone who doesn't want LOA 25 reversed. It can easily be addressed in an agreement that also benefits the 1437 in other areas. This section represents only 10% of an entire extension agreement yet you're so confident that this is the only chance?

To say those who vote no are selfish defies logic. Remember, they are voting against an immediate pay raise as well.

I said the MEC should not rubber stamp this agreement but nice try.

 

[QUOTE=b52dthdlr;2043909]Okay, let me just say I was military as well. I will leave characterizations as to who you are and what you believe in out of this debate as I have no idea who you are. Lets stick to the facts. 1. I have no desire to "leave the furloughees behind" I only have a desire to improve working conditions for the entire pilot group as was the stated mission of your current MEC Chairman when he told me in 2013 the importance of voting yes even though there were inherent problems in that contract and that it was important to get the two pilot groups together so we could fix things in the next contract through section 6. 2. Your assessment of the supposed negotiated reserve is absolutely wrong. The company proposed concessionary changes to the reserve system and your MEC Chairman said since they wanted concession we told them to take that off the table. This is recorded fact.


Your assessment that the company won't give us any more than they have already offered is the very defeatist attitude that leaves this pilot group with ZERO pension. The company will NEVER give us anything. We get what we are willing to stand up and negotiate for with an uncompromising resolve.

You quote me as saying "I am sure the furloughees will be made whole in a contract negotiation" is false. I made no such quote.

 

Probe doesn't need any reminders of the facts. You need to recognize the reality of the day and read the propaganda you mention with a critical eye. No one can say what the true motivation of the 570s was because we are not them. We can say one fact: they interviewed while a strike was ongoing. Each of us can make our own inferences.

As a group I have found 570s to be arrogant beyond reason. As individuals I have found many that I like, but let's not confuse "facts" with "beliefs".


As to this thread Allen what's his name hit the nail on the head and everyone ignored it . . . this contract has a dollar value to each of us. The simple question is will you put up with the current contract for an extra 2 years for that price. My answer is "hell yes", but I'm not on reserve. I also won't give up $60k because someone doesn't like being short called on reserve. If times were stagnant I might agree, but given today's movement, I'll take the cash and live with the contract for two extra years PLUS look at the remarks from LearJet above. Rescinding LOA 25 is HUGE as is automatic pay for extending.

There's a lot of discussion on this thread, but few folks are getting down to brass tacks and discussing the $ versus what it is they want changed and putting a value on that change.

P.S. Cousin Eddie kudos to you for calling out the heinous behaviour of some of our more rapid "Hoffa" types. I actually am ashamed to admit, but I was close friends with Andy during that period and saw a great deal of the evidence he collected. He was an FO for me at CommutAir and we were good friends for a long time until our politics forced a breakup. Regardless what he documented and what I witnessed first hand,like you, was inexcusable.

 

Most of the 570 I've flown with have been pretty level headed and cool... I'm sure there are a number who are not... Luckily haven't had to fly with them yet!

 

My favorite 570 story is this:

Sometime in January or Feb of 2000, before the summer from hell, a crew was flying with one of these DB's from MIA to Santiago. He was on his own mission from God to stick it to the company. They flew across the Amazon at .68 Mach, they were assigned .80. The two FO's pretty much begged him to speed it up to .80. He refused. It is a non-radar environment, and they were supposed to be using "Mach number technique".

They landed in Santiago, and had a very long taxi back. They taxied back at 2-3 knots, for almost an hour. A half a dozen other aircraft landed after them, and were stuck behind them. A Lufthansa 400 was directly behind them. They screamed over and over to have ground get United out of their way.

Later, when the crew got to the hotel, the Lufthansa crew checked in right after the United crew. Apparently the Lufthansa crew was not amused, and confronted the United crew.

True Story.

Take a scab, and add arrogance, and an entitled attitude, and you have a 570. Yeah, there are some decent ones, but in my extremely extensive experience flying with both them and scabs, I stand by my statement. They have earned it.