Question there Andy - Since the money issues would be settled with the TA, Why wouldn't Munos (Our Savior) go ahead and negotiate the full contract? I mean there is really no need to delay that part of the contract for 2 years.

 

My theory:

The company feared big losses of revenue due to cancelled or delayed ULH flights. Trailing DAL in earnings, they were anxious to find a way to stabilize it, so Wall Street confidence would not falter.

Then they were given an option for a very lucrative deal for CS100s, but since Bombardier was teetering on bankruptcy, the deal was time-limited. Having seen the RJ writing on the wall, and the need for mainline 100 seaters, they wanted to secure rates BEFORE announcing a buy or delivery....so there would be no delays due to negotiations for rates.

A move for NSNBs could possibly also tie to investor confidence, since that is the trend at the big three, and they would not want to see us lagging behind.

Full Section 6 takes time....they wanted to get the critical pieces done.

That's my theory.

 

Are the money issues settled with the TA? I've read that it's still too low a number by some.

Here's a question back to you. How long does it take to negotiate a full contract?

I'm used to seeing these things drag out for a couple of years. In comparison, this TA looks like low hanging fruit - able to be grabbed immediately rather than wait until 2019 for a new contract. Can it be done faster? Sure. Are there any guarantees that we'll be able to get most of the section 6 problems fixed? No.

Do you view this TA as an incremental gain or loss? I view it as an incremental gain; better than a lot of (multiyear negotiated) contracts I've seen.

Is it perfect? No, but name me one contract that is perfect. Even C2K gave up some work rules.

Makes sense. I read about the Bombardier issues ~6 months ago. Teetering on closing their doors; I think they got a govt bailout with strings attached. I think those strings involved selling planes, even if it meant at a loss. Selling a bunch of them to United would keep the lights on and the production lines open for quite a while.

 

UAL T38 Phyer/Andy to cover both your responses, this is a piecemeal approach to negotiations. We sign off on this TA and we'll likely see our contract destroyed by the company doing one-on-one negotiations with the MEC Chairmen be it JH or his replacement. Let's see what the first real item on the company's agenda is. This deal didn't just happen. It has been in the planning stages for some time. The company lawyers knew exactly the short term greed affect on a small segment of the pilot group and will play us with all the open ends this TA creates.

 

But you didn't 'cover' my response. I asked specific questions:

How long does it take to negotiate a full contract?

Do you view this TA as an incremental gain or loss?

I would like to read your opinion on those two questions.

 

Just a thought..why haven't we been told What type the new order will be for? More importantly, why haven't they put it in ink? If it's the cs300 it's a good deal..if it's the 100/190 or 195, those pay rates suck all around. I think it should be known exactly what we are voting in favor for or against..

 

Don't know but if it is Munos wanting to build a bridge then it shouldn't take too long. I don't think you have that answer either.

Long term loss and Short term incremental gain at the expense of the whole.

 

If I were to guess, my guess would be that they'll go with Bombardier and buy both the CS100 and CS300. The 100's in production now. I don't think the 300's been certified yet.

Fair enough. Thanks for the response.

I don't have an answer to how long it will take to get a new contract negotiated but if history's a guide, it will take more than a year and likely a couple of years.

For what it's worth, you would be taken more seriously if you spelled the guy's name correctly.

 

The rates may not be great, but go look at JetBlue, Delta, and AA's 190 rates. (Only ones I could find with 100 seat jet rates) 12 year CA rates are $176, $139, and $149 per hour respectively vs. the TA rate of $185

 

124-44. Closer than I would have thought, but maybe 43 of those "no" votes came from Staller and his dozens of old monikers he used to use here.