Originally Posted by jetlink

Yes vote, gives you 113 hours extra per year, at minimum (assuming reserve pilot)
113 hours that you don't have to work for. Or, you can work extra, invest, and earn extra profit to cover extra expenses.
In 2 years that's 226 hours assuming you are on reserve, average more like 270 hours of extra pay; however, if DAL gets better rate, this can end up to 300h or more hours of pay in 24 months that you don't have to work for.
The wish list contains some nice benefits, and most of the NO voters count on getting all of them while negotiating next TA, what are the chances of getting 100% of your demands on next TA?
So what if we vote NO? Back to 0 time and start new negotiations, this will take few months.
New TA will take at least 12 to 24 months; a lot can change in that period; we can negotiate under much different economical and geopolitical circumstances, international trade agreements will be in effect, cross border airline ownership may take effect, (DAL is looking at opening DAL Europe HQ to offset profits from IRS), etc, and today's TA will look like a dream.
In 2012 UPA was strongly opposed by majority of middle and low seniority CAL pilots, and so overwhelmingly supported by UAL pilots claiming a superior work rules, especially to reserve, what have changed since?
Yes, the SLI and many, many upgrades that some did not expected in their lifetime, an improvement to QOL, especially pay, new bases to most, new equipment, better then expected fleet growth, and insourcing; shifting flying from regionals to inhouse, creating potentially more vacancies and new equipment (with better pay scale from E190s renegotiated in this TA). BTW, United does not have to do anything to introduce new fleet under existing TA, and pay you what's on existing TA, E190 pays $139.42, vs new TA $185.19, do the math.
We are now getting bolder, thinking we can get what we want, no matter what! Is it $ an ultimate goal for most?
For some an additional 60 h. of sick leave per year, or 18.2h. in extra vacation credit to cover up to 5 hours of credit, is worth the wait! People, be realistic, you'll not get extra 5 hours of sick pay in a month, you'll not get more then 1.3 hours in addition to your vacation credit. So what's the gain? Less then 80 hours of extra benefits, at best!

Originally Posted by ugleeual

well put… not really sure where the NO voters are getting this idea that its a done deal we will get better than DALs next contract...

Originally Posted by oldmako

Most of the NO voters do not have that view. We want a better deal than we currently have, we do not wish to extend this one. 13 percent on top of this deal is just more cash with the same porous and concessionary contract.

Trip trading is largely non existent even though they are awash in reserve bodies. Reserve issues, Training pay, Vaca pay, PBS, 401k, SICK time accrual, etc etc etc all need work.

Most of the NO voters feel that the time is ripe to improve our contract and to secure a reasonable raise at the same time. If not now, when?

Originally Posted by oldmako

Most of the NO voters do not have that view. We want a better deal than we currently have, we do not wish to extend this one. 13 percent on top of this deal is just more cash with the same porous and concessionary contract.

Trip trading is largely non existent even though they are awash in reserve bodies. Reserve issues, Training pay, Vaca pay, PBS, 401k, SICK time accrual, etc etc etc all need work.

Most of the NO voters feel that the time is ripe to improve our contract and to secure a reasonable raise at the same time. If not now, when?

Originally Posted by ugleeual

How do you know the time is ripe? The market could crash in 2 months? A year? 2 years? What about the next terrorist event? The only tangible item on the table is this TA... Vote how you want... You get one... I get one... Let's see how it plays out.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking

Record profits, cheap oil, widebody aircraft orders earmarked for ulr flying, pilot costs per company revenue at a historic low, and hopefully a strong incoming mec chairman would lead one to believe the time is ripe.

Can you imagine a society where everyone lived in fear if the future? Life, and progress in general would come to a halt.

Originally Posted by ugleeual

I don't live in fear… I just understand that today's records profits are tomorrow's market crash and impending furloughs… just look back at 9/11 and the market crash 7 years ago to name a few… think they were forecasted? Vote how you want… I'm voting Yes like the other 75%+ percent of the pilots will… just watch.

Originally Posted by ugleeual

I don't live in fear… I just understand that today's records profits are tomorrow's market crash and impending furloughs… just look back at 9/11 and the market crash 7 years ago to name a few… think they were forecasted? Vote how you want… I'm voting Yes like the other 75%+ percent of the pilots will… just watch.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking

With your viewpoint, there will never be a good time to negotiate a contract. During the good times, take whatever is offered because the negatives are just around the corner. During the bad times, I can hear the voices screaming the company can't afford a contractual raise.

I'm not sure which is worse, playing the role of our worst enemy, or that of the company's best friend. If not now, when?