Was waiting for the "no one is forcing you" argument. I guess even new hires have a choice?

Had our EB worked out of Anchorage they'd have found a way to limit P3s to & from Anchorage within a week or two. However, as always it's about the mother ship. At this airline much more so than at others.

 

Got it and thanks for taking the time to elaborate. My point was that under the old contract you were on call for a 15 day block. Now its 14 with frequent extensions to 15, but not always, and rarely ever to 16. Besides causing JS booking issues, what has changed in the number of days you guys are being away from home? On an annual basis?

Whale,

That, 'what about the new hires,' argument is way beneath you. Did you put a note that 1st year pay should be addressed on any of your C2016 surveys ? I did. That'd be a real way to help ALL new hires, not just ANC based ones, and would give them improvements they actually need. And as a reminder, 14 RSV DD's with extensions is, in most cases, a heck of a lot better that what they were doing before coming to UPS.

You also called me out, with Commando and using a Katy Perry lyric reference as I recently discovered (rose-colored glasses on - cute boys), as being a company cool aid drinker. Had you paid attention you'd have noticed all my posts have a tone of, "not as bad as you guys are saying it is,"-same as I'm doing on this thread. No, 'I love it here, this place is awesome,' coming from me. Yeah, you guys got the short end of the stick with this and the deal is BS but if that had happened to SDF guys I'm sure you wouldn't give the slightest ship until you decided to return to mecca for your upgrade. And unless you transfer out of ANC, theres nothing you can do about it - it is what it is - so why waste your time getting worked up about it?

 

At what cost to the rest of the pilot group, all 2,000+ of us non-ANC based, just so some of you guys up there can have more convenience getting to and from work...? You guys already have ANC (vs SDF), better skeds, way better catering, way better admin people, way cooler crew culture, the two best planes in the fleet, a decent CP, little exposure to worldport....

 

Actually, no, it was your "no one is forcing you" argument that was way beneath you.

I too am a half-full guy and you know it. 90% of the time we agree on things. However we should never use phrases such as "no one is forcing you" because junior guys/gals have no choice so yes, someone IS forcing them.
The contract is for all - so you should be cognizant of the contractual boundaries they (we) have to work within. I have a choice, yes. Many don't. If you haven't noticed I often speak out for those who're junior to me because at one point others spoke out for me and other junior pilots when I was in their shoes.

Jumpseating to & from anc is tough because we get bumped so often, sometimes we get rebooked and sometimes we don't. At three gmm meetings I heard that "we're working" on jumpseat improvements. Instead, the automatic double-booking limitation came into place. Management's wet-dream because it's a one-size-fits-all solution. We were simply looking for more seats for P7s.
In the past people listed themselves as soon as the 12 day clock started, they'd just click on several flights. Then they kept the flight with most P3s on it (lowest risk of getting bumped) and they removed themselves from the other flights. Typically within minutes. Instead of dealing with the few who didn't follow the rules we incorporated this draconian one-size-fits-all double booking limitation.

How does it work in reality? Well, when the clock starts basically whatever you click on is yours. (IF you set the timer, have great internet connection, nice computer and quick fingers.)
When you realize you're number 6 of 6 P7s (you WILL get bumped) and there's an earlier flight that has 4 P3s (max allowable) and still has an opening you now have to remove yourself from the flight you already have, you hope no one books the open flight in the meantime, oooops, it's already full, now go back really quick to put yourself back on the flight you just removed yourself from... oooops, it's already taken.. again... A bi-weekly reality show for many...

Now what do you think will happen once all those new hires come on property to fly the -8s? The already scarce jumpseats are only going to get even more difficult to get. In the meantime, every single -8 will be pushing from the gate with 2 empty seats because it's certified for 6 jumpseats even though it has 8. Maybe it'd be too expensive to get the faa to approve it? I don't know. However, there should be a P3 matrix to and from Anchorage. That's what we were hoping for and none of that happened.

Yes, I voted for the contract and yes I knew about this flaw in it. Doesn't mean I won't speak up about issues that are important to Anchorage based crews. ...and yes, had the EB worked out of Anchorage or had most of our managers been based in Anchorage they'd have found a solution within weeks. Out of sight out of mind.

...and to answer your earlier questions and comments:
- yes, in the survey I asked for the first year pay to be raised significantly. Also supported an "averaging out or equalizing of the first two years' pay" suggestion that was floating around.
- don't be jealous of our catering. It's slowly being contaminated with the sdf mindset. Cologne - we order online, possible worst in the system (this is Germany!? The capital of fantastic food!). The latest victim is Honolulu. Now it's all done online, no special orders, no extras... :-(
- "rose-colored glasses" - (idiomatic) An optimistic perception of something; a positive opinion; seeing something in a positive way, often thinking of it as better than it actually is.
That's what I associate rose-colored glasses with. No idea where you got your "cute boys" or Katy Perry association from?? Surely you must've heard this expression before?

I certainly don't view you as a company cool-aid drinker. Not sure why you'd think that? A bit naïve sometimes, especially in few areas of our contract maybe (see above) but the same applies to me and many others. Again, we won't always agree on everything. I am not based in sdf so I don't get all the intricacies of being mothership based and the same applies to you as far as our Anchorage domicile. I have no plans of bidding out of Anchorage and I don't "get worked up about it" but I will be speaking out about it because some people don't have the choice of bidding out of here.
It's a Contract 4 All -> and that includes Anchorage based crews.

.

 

For you guys considering brown and an ANC commute thru SDF, pay close, close attention to Whale's post above, particularly paragraphs 3-5. For reference, P3 is a company must ride DH. P7 is line pilot personal JS booking. ANC SDF will have a lot of crews being positive spaced both ways for various reasons which reduced the total seats avail for commuters. The matrix refers to limits our contract has for how many seats of company business personnel ups can put on a particular flight. As Whale pointed out on the SDF ANC runs, we have problematic JS bidding software worsened by frequent must ride DH changes, limited available seats combined with a growing number of people doing it all leading to one giant cluster-F in the near future for ANC commuters. You need to consider this eventuality should you be offered a class.

I have a very high regard for whale and will say that if you want to know what the guys are like at UPS, Whale is a good representative. As such, I take any disagreement with him into deep consideration. While I agree the JS booking system, the P3 issue, and the YTF didn't they certify the 800's with all avail JS's are needed changes, even if we did get these enacted it still wouldn't change the fact that there are simply not enough seats for all the guys that are or will be commuting and that is the main problem. It is not UPS's responsibility to get any of us to/from domicile. The expectation for them, and any airline for that matter, is that we live where we are based but because we can get away with it we can choose not to live in domicile just as we can choose to accept employment with all of its terms and conditions. As a newhire I was ready to relocate (temporarily) to ANC or somewhere close if the commute proved too difficult. Just the reality of the situation not my lack of seniority forcing me into something. What should be looked into is whether or not ANC should be treated as a foreign domicile - private school $$, housing allowances, yearly family tix back home, etc., that would at least make it bearable to consider moving up there. But until UPS buys a few CRJs and runs dedicated shuttles for us to commute to ANC with, expect the commute to be a pain in the rear.

 

Thanks for the kind words FTFF. I'll respond later.

 

My memory from flying the -8 at another company is that the limiting factor is the number of descent reels on board. Which is 8. So the limitation is on upper deck occupants and not necessarily on jumpseats. So, if you have a 2-person crew operating ANC-SDF, there should be 6 available cabin seats.

Definitely makes no sense why Boeing didn’t just put 10 reels on the thing. But I’m no engineer....

 

Please be gentle... I commute too.

 

Correct on all points. Here "there should be 6 available cabin seats" means there are only 2. Four are routinely used by the company for P3s which are known as "must rides" at pax airlines.

Our 400s have 6 jumpseats (2 in the cockpit and 4 in the cabin). All 6 can be used for jumpseating however usually only 2 P7s are available (P7 is what pilots use for commuting).

Our -8s will technically have 8 jumpseats (2 in the cockpit and 6 in the cabin) however only 6 can be used for jumpseating due to the limitation you mentioned.
(Note - I haven't seen our new plane yet so I'm just basing it on what I've heard.)

So the "unused" seats will serve no purpose unless the planes are re-certified. Ain't gonna happen..

My contention is that commuting to and from Anchorage will only be getting worst. I wish our company deadheaded our crew members the way FedEx does (passenger airlines). It'd open open up jumpseats for commuters.
Alternatively I'd like to see a matrix limiting the company to 1 or 2 P3s per 74 going to and from Anchorage.
I might be a dreamer but I certainly ain't the only one.

 

Absolutely !

They'd never agree to it, cheap bastards spend a dollar to save a dime in more ways that we can list when they screw us at every corner, but I digress.

Bid Package Matrix should be ZERO, zip, zilch, NADA.

Operational Matrix could allow 1-2 P3s. At least that is when a RSV is being used to cover a trip at the last minute when a commercial flight might not be available