Originally Posted by SaltyDog

Taco,
You could interview at both, get put in the pool at UPS, start at FedEx then get called to start UPS, then you have a real choice, or, could get hired quickly at UPS and then be in class and called by FedEx, then you have a real choice.

Everyone knows you need to go with the first offer.
Direct answer: I would now pick UPS, but if I ask 100 UPS IPA pilots the same question, 99 will say UPS, 1 will say FedEx. I surmise that if I asked 100 FedEx pilots which one, that 99 would say FedEx and 1 would say UPS. (I know hundreds of UPS pilots and probably a hundred FedEx pilots.
On a layover in CGN and a dozen other places I have drank an adult beverage with both groups, you can’t really break them out in most conversation excepting the identifier “UPS …” or “FedEx..”. We bellyache about the same things, enjoy flying with almost all of our counterparts. Similar flying, etc.

Had 3 primary choices. Had flown pax and then decided Brown, Purple and Southwest. No order for first- Brown or Purple, Southwest a close second, many friends at all three. In my time window, UPS was privately held and that was really appealing to me from a business success model. Owned by the managers and managed by the owners. They really moved the business to serve the customer. Fred and Herb simply were brilliant entrepreneurs that attracted loyal folks to build a big and profitable business. All three had airplanes that I would enjoy flying and most importantly knew how to make money flying airplanes with people I liked flying previously.

The management landscapes have changed by 2018. You may want to evaluate current near term and long term management for the amount of time you will be employed. More important if a younger person (late 20's to early forties), not as critical if mid late forties and older. Market presence and business inertia will help the older folks make it to retirement fairly secure. Younger folks may want to add future business and management change potential to the mix of the best fit for themselves.

Example, UPS went public, upper management has taken many incentives away from managers which many believe has harmed the business. Herb retired and Southwest internal culture has certainly shifted according to my WN friends but management keeps building market share and growth.

Fred is not going to last a younger persons career, what will his departure and retirement mean to the future of FedEx business approach to FedEx pilots? Fred likes FedEx airplanes flying all around the world, UPS only flies UPS jets where they must and cannot manage the business any other way. They will use trains, ships, and trucks to move customer’s goods. Our scope is the firewall. It’s a big part of our existence in the contract. Its being tested right now. UPS desire to not fly airplanes unless absolutely essential makes sense to the business but can harm a future from a pilots perspective. This caused UPS pilots to negotiate a substantial Scope provisions to provide some certainty in a UPS pilot career.

Will Fred’s successor desire to fly FedEx widebodies around the world if they can do it cheaper without them? Will let the FedEx pilots weigh in on their confidence of their Scope protections if FedEx decided to cutback only to the Scope protections.

Presently, two great companies that make a sustained long term profit flying airplanes and will provide well for you (and your family) certainly in short to mid term. Mid 40’s or later, solid career. Younger, a bit more business strategy assessment may be advisable.
Doing your research, you can observe how each company currently has a blend of similar and different approaches to various markets. Personal decision on who you think manages the current business and future business more successfully. Most certainly will impact your career, so in the macro, that is a business decision.

Others:
We both fly similar lifestyles in the macro, in the micro, we all learn to find the niche our seniority holds and mostly enjoy what we do with the pilots with whom we fly.

Pilot Contracts- Evolved very differently with different companies.
Can compare certain high value events like pay, medical, pension, and though different, both will provide well for a pilot. You can be on an endless debate loop comparing some apples and oranges. Depending on point of view, the proverbial "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies.
Pilot Unions:
Both provide for their base group. IPA pilots took substantial voluntary paycuts to preserve jobs for our pilots ultimately furloughed by UPS. After furlough, IPA pilots did not fly any extra flying or 150% “immediate” flying for just under four years until all pilots back on property (IPA did have some on/off months for negotiations purposes). What that meant was we had 61 and older Captains who with the rest of the pilot group did not fly extra days that could have paid them another $20,000 to $40,000 annually at peak career earnings potential. They retired without ever making that money back just like their fellow pilots still on property. I deem that impressive. Solidarity and principled folks put money where their mouth was and walked the walk. It did bring pilots back on property sooner. Likewise, the IPA pilots voted an assessment to pay the COBRA medical bills ( and extensions by negotiation with UPS to provide health care at IPA expense) for the duration of the furlough. A family bill was typically $19,000 annually paid by the IPA pilots voluntarily. So a generous group that covers for each other, not because we work for UPS, but because for our own reason, we see each other as true family of brothers and sisters. (We squabble too)

My friends at FedEx have usual concerns about their own affairs as do IPA folks. Internal affairs for each group.
Doubt many, if any, prospective pilots really care if IPA or ALPA, they are looking to get a job at UPS or FedEx. Then they look at the unions once aboard. Normal.
So, again, if you ask 100 UPS IPA pilots UPS or FedEx? 99 will say UPS, 1 will say FedEx. Surmise that if asked 100 FedEx pilots which one, that 99 would say FedEx and 1 would say UPS. Hopefully you get one, if lucky, will have to make a choice 
Good fortunes

Originally Posted by StewBlu

Has anyone been to one of these? Are they for real? Just reached their mins and deciding whether or not to go. Ive heard guys are getting the hogan after going.

FAPA.aero | Pilot Job Fairs

Originally Posted by StewBlu

Has anyone been to one of these? Are they for real? Just reached their mins and deciding whether or not to go. Ive heard guys are getting the hogan after going.

FAPA.aero | Pilot Job Fairs

Originally Posted by khsgt

Yes and a FAPA job fair got me the hogan which resulted in a job.

Originally Posted by TacoTuesday

The latest bid at Fedex has Jr 757 Captains at less than 2 years on property. Obviously this is due to the narrow body pay and not wanting to sit reserve in MEM. From what I understand wide body reserve capt is still around 7 or 8 years.

What do you all think will happen to upgrade times at UPS moving forward with these new orders plus retirements? Can we expected significantly shortened upgrades? Or can new joiners today expect the standard 10 years?

Please consult your crystal ball and let me know what you think.