BoilerUP

From October 2017 through March 2022, the Company will have grown the fleet from 236 to 290 active airframes, representing nearly 23% growth in airframes in just 4.5 years. I'm not sure any of the 'big six' has grown airframes by a greater percentage in that timeframe. We just ordered 19 more 767s, with options for 8 more, to be delivered 2023-2025. No airframe retirements have been announced.

The Company just made record revenue and earnings.

Past results not indicative of future performance...but I don't think the sky is falling.

tnkrdrvr

C’mon man! You know you have your app in at Delta

dera

It's APC. Sky is ALWAYS falling.

TransWorld

I was specifically thinking about how packages get picked up and get to the planes and then get to their final destination. This requires a tremendous amount of infrastructure and market capitalization for ground work.

While frequent flier programs and lounges for passenger airlines are some value, they pale in comparison to the market capitalization of all the airport terminals, parking garages, taxis, ubers, etc. This “ground work” would be needed to make a fair comparison. Don’t know that exists. But it would be needed to make a valid apples to apples comparison. People need to understand this when they are trying to make comparisons and drawing conclusions.

tnkrdrvr

Most of what you are talking about is infrastructure that pax airlines pay rent or otherwise support through fees, etc. UPS especially, and to a lesser extent FedEx, own most of the infrastructure they use (outside of airports, which is a small piece of UPS’ portfolio). The company has a relatively light debt load relative to its size and assets. Due to the nature of the operation it has employees and assets in every congressional district and most countries. That gives it incredible sway. Pax airlines own airliners and not much else in the way of physical assets. Market capitalization is what Wall Street thinks a company in its totality is worth. It is the ultimate apples to apples comparison.

TransWorld

I agree with everything you say. It is true. But it does not address the comparison to which I was speaking. Trying to compare apples to apples. Without considering those ground assets, whether the pax airline owns them or not, means it is apples and oranges. I understand they do not own the Ubers. But considering delivery trucks as market capitalization, and not penciling in Ubers, for comparison (even through the pax airline does not own the Ubers), results in apples to oranges. I trust that is a clarification, to make a fair basis comparison.

fightandflight

The original discussion was regarding market cap - the value of the company’s shares. I’m not exactly sure what kind of comparison you are trying to make, but the simple fact of the matter is that UPS is a far more valuable company than those others. What factors into that value is irrelevant. You don’t compare the market cap of UPS and Amazon and say a fair comparison would be if you add the value of all the websites and web services that UPS customers use. Those might be the WHY behind shareholders valuing a company the way they do, then again share price seems to grow increasingly disconnected from any rational thought.

TransWorld

One non-aircraft parallel. After this, I am done. Comparing market capitalization of GM to Mitsubishi.

GM primarily manufactures cars and trucks. Mitsubishi manufactures cars and trucks, trains, ships, heavy industrial equipment. It is a conglomerate.

It would not be appropriate to compare market capitalization of GM to the market capitalization of the entire Mitsubishi. One would want to just look at the division of Mitsubishi that manufactures cars and trucks to make a valid comparison.

This should bring clarity to most people who are reading this, why one has to compare market capitalization of the aircraft operations, only. Or include everything else for all the corporations. Otherwise, like GM and the entire Mitsubishi, that would be comparing apples to oranges.

tnkrdrvr

Wall Street compares what you call apples to oranges all the time. That is what the stock market exists to do. As far as trying to compare just the airline at UPS to just the airline at Delta or whatever, it’s basically impossible to do. UPS runs an airline because it makes the rest of the operation more valuable. The airline makes everything from our medical logistics, e-commerce delivery, B2B, etc more efficient and thus more profitable. Delta’s airline exists primarily to move people and some freight from airport A to airport B. The only synergies it generates are the credit card and mileage financial business (the oil refinery seems to be a wildcard). Delta wouldn’t exist without its airline. Everything there revolves around it. UPS and FedEx could survive without an in house airline, but would take a substantial hit to their ability to deliver many services they perform today.

jetlaggy

Airlines don’t own the terminals and garages..therefore not on balance sheet…cargo guys own most of their infrastructure. I would say if you own it and can sell it…then it’s a apple.

If you want to compare just the airline operation..not frequent flier or credit card…most pax airline would be in the red.