Notices

UPS earnings report

Old 02-03-2022, 09:10 AM
  #31  
The NeverEnding Story
 
BoilerUP's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
Default

From October 2017 through March 2022, the Company will have grown the fleet from 236 to 290 active airframes, representing nearly 23% growth in airframes in just 4.5 years. I'm not sure any of the 'big six' has grown airframes by a greater percentage in that timeframe. We just ordered 19 more 767s, with options for 8 more, to be delivered 2023-2025. No airframe retirements have been announced.

The Company just made record revenue and earnings.

Past results not indicative of future performance...but I don't think the sky is falling.
BoilerUP is offline  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:15 AM
  #32  
Occasional box hauler
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,800
Default

Originally Posted by BoilerUP
From October 2017 through March 2022, the Company will have grown the fleet from 236 to 290 active airframes, representing nearly 23% growth in airframes in just 4.5 years. I'm not sure any of the 'big six' has grown airframes by a greater percentage in that timeframe. We just ordered 19 more 767s, with options for 8 more, to be delivered 2023-2025. No airframe retirements have been announced.

The Company just made record revenue and earnings.

Past results not indicative of future performance...but I don't think the sky is falling.
C’mon man! You know you have your app in at Delta
tnkrdrvr is offline  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:37 AM
  #33  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,632
Default

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Past results not indicative of future performance...but I don't think the sky is falling.
It's APC. Sky is ALWAYS falling.
dera is offline  
Old 02-03-2022, 10:54 AM
  #34  
Gets Everyday Off
 
TransWorld's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
Default

Originally Posted by jetlaggy
Do pax airlines include the value of their frequent fliers programs and lounges? Or anything that makes them different?
I was specifically thinking about how packages get picked up and get to the planes and then get to their final destination. This requires a tremendous amount of infrastructure and market capitalization for ground work.

While frequent flier programs and lounges for passenger airlines are some value, they pale in comparison to the market capitalization of all the airport terminals, parking garages, taxis, ubers, etc. This “ground work” would be needed to make a fair comparison. Don’t know that exists. But it would be needed to make a valid apples to apples comparison. People need to understand this when they are trying to make comparisons and drawing conclusions.
TransWorld is offline  
Old 02-03-2022, 11:46 AM
  #35  
Occasional box hauler
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,800
Default

Originally Posted by TransWorld
I was specifically thinking about how packages get picked up and get to the planes and then get to their final destination. This requires a tremendous amount of infrastructure and market capitalization for ground work.

While frequent flier programs and lounges for passenger airlines are some value, they pale in comparison to the market capitalization of all the airport terminals, parking garages, taxis, ubers, etc. This “ground work” would be needed to make a fair comparison. Don’t know that exists. But it would be needed to make a valid apples to apples comparison. People need to understand this when they are trying to make comparisons and drawing conclusions.
Most of what you are talking about is infrastructure that pax airlines pay rent or otherwise support through fees, etc. UPS especially, and to a lesser extent FedEx, own most of the infrastructure they use (outside of airports, which is a small piece of UPS’ portfolio). The company has a relatively light debt load relative to its size and assets. Due to the nature of the operation it has employees and assets in every congressional district and most countries. That gives it incredible sway. Pax airlines own airliners and not much else in the way of physical assets. Market capitalization is what Wall Street thinks a company in its totality is worth. It is the ultimate apples to apples comparison.
tnkrdrvr is offline  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:49 PM
  #36  
Gets Everyday Off
 
TransWorld's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
Default

Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
Most of what you are talking about is infrastructure that pax airlines pay rent or otherwise support through fees, etc. UPS especially, and to a lesser extent FedEx, own most of the infrastructure they use (outside of airports, which is a small piece of UPS’ portfolio). The company has a relatively light debt load relative to its size and assets. Due to the nature of the operation it has employees and assets in every congressional district and most countries. That gives it incredible sway. Pax airlines own airliners and not much else in the way of physical assets. Market capitalization is what Wall Street thinks a company in its totality is worth. It is the ultimate apples to apples comparison.
I agree with everything you say. It is true. But it does not address the comparison to which I was speaking. Trying to compare apples to apples. Without considering those ground assets, whether the pax airline owns them or not, means it is apples and oranges. I understand they do not own the Ubers. But considering delivery trucks as market capitalization, and not penciling in Ubers, for comparison (even through the pax airline does not own the Ubers), results in apples to oranges. I trust that is a clarification, to make a fair basis comparison.
TransWorld is offline  
Old 02-04-2022, 12:33 AM
  #37  
Gets Weekends Off
 
fightandflight's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 111
Default

Originally Posted by TransWorld
I agree with everything you say. It is true. But it does not address the comparison to which I was speaking. Trying to compare apples to apples. Without considering those ground assets, whether the pax airline owns them or not, means it is apples and oranges. I understand they do not own the Ubers. But considering delivery trucks as market capitalization, and not penciling in Ubers, for comparison (even through the pax airline does not own the Ubers), results in apples to oranges. I trust that is a clarification, to make a fair basis comparison.
The original discussion was regarding market cap - the value of the company’s shares. I’m not exactly sure what kind of comparison you are trying to make, but the simple fact of the matter is that UPS is a far more valuable company than those others. What factors into that value is irrelevant. You don’t compare the market cap of UPS and Amazon and say a fair comparison would be if you add the value of all the websites and web services that UPS customers use. Those might be the WHY behind shareholders valuing a company the way they do, then again share price seems to grow increasingly disconnected from any rational thought.
fightandflight is offline  
Old 02-04-2022, 09:15 AM
  #38  
Gets Everyday Off
 
TransWorld's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
Default

Originally Posted by fightandflight
The original discussion was regarding market cap - the value of the company’s shares. I’m not exactly sure what kind of comparison you are trying to make, but the simple fact of the matter is that UPS is a far more valuable company than those others. What factors into that value is irrelevant. You don’t compare the market cap of UPS and Amazon and say a fair comparison would be if you add the value of all the websites and web services that UPS customers use. Those might be the WHY behind shareholders valuing a company the way they do, then again share price seems to grow increasingly disconnected from any rational thought.
One non-aircraft parallel. After this, I am done. Comparing market capitalization of GM to Mitsubishi.

GM primarily manufactures cars and trucks. Mitsubishi manufactures cars and trucks, trains, ships, heavy industrial equipment. It is a conglomerate.

It would not be appropriate to compare market capitalization of GM to the market capitalization of the entire Mitsubishi. One would want to just look at the division of Mitsubishi that manufactures cars and trucks to make a valid comparison.

This should bring clarity to most people who are reading this, why one has to compare market capitalization of the aircraft operations, only. Or include everything else for all the corporations. Otherwise, like GM and the entire Mitsubishi, that would be comparing apples to oranges.
TransWorld is offline  
Old 02-04-2022, 09:35 AM
  #39  
Occasional box hauler
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,800
Default

Originally Posted by TransWorld
One non-aircraft parallel. After this, I am done. Comparing market capitalization of GM to Mitsubishi.

GM primarily manufactures cars and trucks. Mitsubishi manufactures cars and trucks, trains, ships, heavy industrial equipment. It is a conglomerate.

It would not be appropriate to compare market capitalization of GM to the market capitalization of the entire Mitsubishi. One would want to just look at the division of Mitsubishi that manufactures cars and trucks to make a valid comparison.

This should bring clarity to most people who are reading this, why one has to compare market capitalization of the aircraft operations, only. Or include everything else for all the corporations. Otherwise, like GM and the entire Mitsubishi, that would be comparing apples to oranges.
Wall Street compares what you call apples to oranges all the time. That is what the stock market exists to do. As far as trying to compare just the airline at UPS to just the airline at Delta or whatever, it’s basically impossible to do. UPS runs an airline because it makes the rest of the operation more valuable. The airline makes everything from our medical logistics, e-commerce delivery, B2B, etc more efficient and thus more profitable. Delta’s airline exists primarily to move people and some freight from airport A to airport B. The only synergies it generates are the credit card and mileage financial business (the oil refinery seems to be a wildcard). Delta wouldn’t exist without its airline. Everything there revolves around it. UPS and FedEx could survive without an in house airline, but would take a substantial hit to their ability to deliver many services they perform today.
tnkrdrvr is offline  
Old 02-04-2022, 02:52 PM
  #40  
maxing the min/Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: 757
Posts: 1,416
Default

Originally Posted by TransWorld
I was specifically thinking about how packages get picked up and get to the planes and then get to their final destination. This requires a tremendous amount of infrastructure and market capitalization for ground work.

While frequent flier programs and lounges for passenger airlines are some value, they pale in comparison to the market capitalization of all the airport terminals, parking garages, taxis, ubers, etc. This “ground work” would be needed to make a fair comparison. Don’t know that exists. But it would be needed to make a valid apples to apples comparison. People need to understand this when they are trying to make comparisons and drawing conclusions.
Airlines don’t own the terminals and garages..therefore not on balance sheet…cargo guys own most of their infrastructure. I would say if you own it and can sell it…then it’s a apple.

If you want to compare just the airline operation..not frequent flier or credit card…most pax airline would be in the red.
jetlaggy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
whalesurfer
UPS
11
06-19-2017 07:54 AM
767pilot
Cargo
113
10-15-2009 06:19 PM
FR8K9
Cargo
12
10-06-2008 05:02 AM
Zoro
Cargo
19
07-28-2006 12:30 AM
Freighter Captain
Cargo
0
07-11-2005 08:59 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices