Does backside of the clock really kill you?
10-17-2022, 08:13 AM
#21
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,692
Originally Posted by Recliner
I was simply sharing my observation from watching schedule bid awards on the Z. My assumption is that reserve goes junior because you don't sit around in base unused. But maybe I am wrong?
10-18-2022, 08:42 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 523
Originally Posted by InstantCoffee
Agree and disagree.
Did sort flying for a while and realized I did not want to end up like the walking dead in there; made a change in my bid strategy when I could.
Been holding AT and PA crossings on Z. Just got senior enough to hold 2-week trips in Europe. Cush, right? 4 leg nights most of both weeks with 12 hour layovers and a full circadian flip for the crossings on both ends of the trip is still tough. Not SDF/PHL/DFW night sort tough. But tough. Maybe there are better lines (fewer legs a night, longer layovers) that go more senior to me, but I doubt it. Find the trips with mostly crossings to allow more opportunities for exercise and to get out. Just fewer cities to do that, and not much to see around a lot of those hotels unless you take some kind of transport, which has been difficult until recently. Could get out in Europe more than Asia for the last couple of years. Now that Japan and Korea are both opening up, Asia (for crossings) might not be so bad. (General bid around China for the last 2.5 years and haven’t been or heard any reports yet about life under the looser restrictions in HKG and TPE, but suspect it’s a “my head feels better when I stop hitting it with a hammer” situation.) Probably going back to crossings just so there’s more time to get out and work out; those are indisputable elements of healthy(er) living regardless of the time of day one works. Maybe the longer trips on the Whale are more along the rhythm you suggest, but they have plenty of crap sandwiches hidden in their schedules too.
Being a “glass half empty” person, instead of saying “find your niche and be happy” I’d say “pick your scheduling poison, call FAT/ SIK when you are FAT/ SIK, and appreciate the features in the contract that allow you to enjoy your time off with the people you love (OCV, conflict bidding and pay) because we’re all going to die anyway, whether we fly on the front or back side of the clock.
All that to say: agree that domestic sort flying is probably the worst, but international isn’t necessarily that much better. Make intentional choices about managing your health. Find what schedule works for you, because if you don’t, you’ll burn out.
Also: Not a doctor or physiologist, so this opinion is worth what was paid for it.
Clearly the java hasn’t kicked in yet, but re-reading my post, think we are in violent agreement. To put the blame where it belongs, I’m clearly the one generating the violence. Sorry.
IC
Did sort flying for a while and realized I did not want to end up like the walking dead in there; made a change in my bid strategy when I could.
Been holding AT and PA crossings on Z. Just got senior enough to hold 2-week trips in Europe. Cush, right? 4 leg nights most of both weeks with 12 hour layovers and a full circadian flip for the crossings on both ends of the trip is still tough. Not SDF/PHL/DFW night sort tough. But tough. Maybe there are better lines (fewer legs a night, longer layovers) that go more senior to me, but I doubt it. Find the trips with mostly crossings to allow more opportunities for exercise and to get out. Just fewer cities to do that, and not much to see around a lot of those hotels unless you take some kind of transport, which has been difficult until recently. Could get out in Europe more than Asia for the last couple of years. Now that Japan and Korea are both opening up, Asia (for crossings) might not be so bad. (General bid around China for the last 2.5 years and haven’t been or heard any reports yet about life under the looser restrictions in HKG and TPE, but suspect it’s a “my head feels better when I stop hitting it with a hammer” situation.) Probably going back to crossings just so there’s more time to get out and work out; those are indisputable elements of healthy(er) living regardless of the time of day one works. Maybe the longer trips on the Whale are more along the rhythm you suggest, but they have plenty of crap sandwiches hidden in their schedules too.
Being a “glass half empty” person, instead of saying “find your niche and be happy” I’d say “pick your scheduling poison, call FAT/ SIK when you are FAT/ SIK, and appreciate the features in the contract that allow you to enjoy your time off with the people you love (OCV, conflict bidding and pay) because we’re all going to die anyway, whether we fly on the front or back side of the clock.
All that to say: agree that domestic sort flying is probably the worst, but international isn’t necessarily that much better. Make intentional choices about managing your health. Find what schedule works for you, because if you don’t, you’ll burn out.
Also: Not a doctor or physiologist, so this opinion is worth what was paid for it.
Clearly the java hasn’t kicked in yet, but re-reading my post, think we are in violent agreement. To put the blame where it belongs, I’m clearly the one generating the violence. Sorry.
IC
10-18-2022, 08:55 AM
#23
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,518
Originally Posted by Gilligan13
This is considered good lines at UPS? This sounds awful.
Our network runs differently than the passenger carriers, so the flying is going to look different. I think there's a reason why Z Europe flying tends to go senior.
Niche for nearly everybody here...
10-18-2022, 07:21 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 523
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
One person's trash is another's treasure. After all, "good" or "awful" is in the eye of the beholder, right?
Our network runs differently than the passenger carriers, so the flying is going to look different. I think there's a reason why Z Europe flying tends to go senior.
Niche for nearly everybody here...
Our network runs differently than the passenger carriers, so the flying is going to look different. I think there's a reason why Z Europe flying tends to go senior.
Niche for nearly everybody here...
10-18-2022, 09:50 PM
#25
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by Gilligan13
4 legs a day for two weeks, backside of the clock is a treasure because it’s Europe?
10-19-2022, 03:51 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Gilligan13
4 legs a day for two weeks, backside of the clock is a treasure because it’s Europe?
10-20-2022, 08:58 AM
#28
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,052
Personally, I find flying at night to be relaxing. The weather is often better, the traffic is less, it's quieter, there are more direct-to's, and in general, less stress.
There is no "backside of the clock." It's a myth. There's jus a clock, and it's an artificial construct: time doesn't exist except by whatever means we choose to measure, so suggesting that flipping around a 12 or 24 hour clock somehow causes health issues or death is idiotic.
We adapt. We adapt to location, to changing hours of daylight. Fatigue is real; it's real in different ways for different people, and it's very possible to increase or decrease it by diet, habit, sleep, and use or abuse of sugar, caffeine, nicotine, etc.
Flying at night reduces exposure to solar radiation. There's less to damage the eye. There are means of giving the body the best adaption to light and dark. I prefer to sleep when able, rather than adjust my sleep patterns over and over. I don't like attempting to force sleep if not tired or for artificial sleep periods enroute.
Repeated flip flops day and night can be fatiguing and chronic fatigue is never good for health. Some tend to create their own worst-case scenario, some don't. It's inappropriate to suggest that flying freight, or flying long haul, or flying at irregular times leads to premature death or long term illness, or whatever the insinuation might be.
There are those who leave a full, active career for retirement who find the transition to be difficult, and certainly if one does not occupy one's mind and time, or continue with some sense or purpose or direction, there may be repercussions. One need not blame that on one's former career. We all age and all experience various changes in health with age; correlation does not imply causation, and inference that retirement from flying freight or a career of night flight is the cause of death of disease, especially without evidence, is inappropriate.
Compare getting good sleep and reporting rested for a quiet night flight to a hectic commute into a trip with several legs in crowded terminals, heavy traffic, and rolling time constraints. Compare one trip a day or every few days to back to back legs. Different strokes; there are those who find long haul, or shift, or night flying to be relaxing, rewarding, enjoyable, and less stress than other kinds of flying.
There is no "backside of the clock." It's a myth. There's jus a clock, and it's an artificial construct: time doesn't exist except by whatever means we choose to measure, so suggesting that flipping around a 12 or 24 hour clock somehow causes health issues or death is idiotic.
We adapt. We adapt to location, to changing hours of daylight. Fatigue is real; it's real in different ways for different people, and it's very possible to increase or decrease it by diet, habit, sleep, and use or abuse of sugar, caffeine, nicotine, etc.
Flying at night reduces exposure to solar radiation. There's less to damage the eye. There are means of giving the body the best adaption to light and dark. I prefer to sleep when able, rather than adjust my sleep patterns over and over. I don't like attempting to force sleep if not tired or for artificial sleep periods enroute.
Repeated flip flops day and night can be fatiguing and chronic fatigue is never good for health. Some tend to create their own worst-case scenario, some don't. It's inappropriate to suggest that flying freight, or flying long haul, or flying at irregular times leads to premature death or long term illness, or whatever the insinuation might be.
There are those who leave a full, active career for retirement who find the transition to be difficult, and certainly if one does not occupy one's mind and time, or continue with some sense or purpose or direction, there may be repercussions. One need not blame that on one's former career. We all age and all experience various changes in health with age; correlation does not imply causation, and inference that retirement from flying freight or a career of night flight is the cause of death of disease, especially without evidence, is inappropriate.
Compare getting good sleep and reporting rested for a quiet night flight to a hectic commute into a trip with several legs in crowded terminals, heavy traffic, and rolling time constraints. Compare one trip a day or every few days to back to back legs. Different strokes; there are those who find long haul, or shift, or night flying to be relaxing, rewarding, enjoyable, and less stress than other kinds of flying.
10-20-2022, 09:29 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Flying at night reduces exposure to solar radiation.
https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2015...m-cosmic-rays/
10-20-2022, 12:10 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by zerozero
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