a. It has happened before

b. That is UPS’s specialty

 

I believe bidding for Fleet and Domicle is done by seniority in the class. Eldest dewd (in the class) gets first choice. UPS doesnt just put you where they neeed you out of seniority anymore like they used to. They developed the Mon/Tues scheme to take care of the guys with heavy experience.

 

It would only be a temporary nightmare, if it happens like that at all. We do have a few pilots that commute from Asia and Europe, so it's doable depending on your pain tolerance. You probably won't have much competition for jumpseats as long as you book early.

 

This right here... although I am an Atlas Pilot, not at UPS. I have looked at international commuting ever since Laredo broke my German wife and she headed back home. Every friend in the industry, every honest post like the one quoted here, every random pilot I chat with waiting to board my paid gateway flights re affirms my position that Atlas is the best option for international commuters and the only one if you want any quality time at home.

I wouldn't even jumpseat to base if I lived in the States, I'd move to domicile. But FRA to PDX, ONT, IAH, or MIA the past year on a paid ticket... piece of cake.

 

Totally doable. ANC has week on week off reserve lines, and very few two week ones. Most guys who have long commutes bid for these. Granted, you can get extended two extra days without your consent and they seem to do it quite often. Actual flying lines would be a nightmare as each bid period has on average 4-5 shows. Your commute would be hell and you would be spending a lot of time waiting for a ride to HK from ANC.
-what most posters here stated regarding your fleet assignment are 100% spot on. You get placed on what they need. Good thing is, having heavy time helps on a heavy class.
- as stated, life is gonna suck for a minimum of two years IF you don’t get the whale ANC right off the back. If you don’t, life will be pretty miserable for you. Commuting that far will most likely won’t happen.
-lines on all fleets are horrible, terrible for commuters. If you can move your family for two years state side while you get the whale in ANC would be mostly beneficial.
-Atlas would be a perfect option for your life style as the poster above commented. However, you can’t compare the two as far as pay, benefits, job security. Not banging on atlas, it’s a great company it’s just not UPS. if you don’t care about retirement that much, or being away from home a lot, it would be more beneficial for your life style.

 

I'm too lazy to look, but how senior (% from the bottom) do you need to hold these? my guess is somewhat senior.

 

Not that senior actually. I guess if you are the plug life will suck, and end up with reserve D (I thinks it’s 4 on 3 off). Believe it or not most people, myself included, would do the 4-5 show lines. There was more of a sense of “control” of what you could do. They make it super hard to drop or trade but once in a while you would get lucky.
being on reserve you can’t do much, just sit around and wait to be called. Most of the colleagues I knew that did reserve hated life, cus they would never be called. And where stuck in crash pads with no car. Gives people cabin fever I guess. anecdotal, saw lost of dudes quit UPS while on reserve in ANC. Most hated the commute and the flying, and was making their family life hell.

 

Truth is, with some seniority not only can it be done it can be quite good. These whale guys completely ignore the Z which can bring you 2 week on off trips with DH/CML’s at either end or both. I flew with 2 guys living in Asia going this and were absolutely killing it. If their bid award didn’t have DHs they would trade into them when possible. They would also pickup short filler trips that had DHs on both ends to operate 1 or 2 days in Asia. That’s 4 extra paid days, big pay too, they got for 1-2 days of actual work. They were more mid pack on fleet vs senior. You can start holding 2 week Asia trips here and there on VTO/VTOR (secondary lines) quite early. Probably pull off commute to Asia with 50 below you. 100 below to start doing it without pulling your hair out. Mid pack and above you’re living large.

If I were to do it now I’d go domestic 76 and drop/trade into whatever works for commuting. Spouse would have to work to cover loss income. Get some bodies below you and either go to whale or Z and do same thing. Once you get close to mid pack Z I’d go there and never look back.

Either way you’re gunna have to get some seniority to do it. But once you do it’s fantastic.

 

I'm looking to do something very similar to OP out of Germany. Retiring from the USAF with KC-135 experience. I'm currently waiting for a Spring UPS class date. My plan is to try and get into SDF 74s or 76Z and bid for trips in/out of CGN as much as possible. How feasible is that as a junior FO? I feel like the MD would be the worst case scenairo and 75 domestic only slight better. Anyone have any thoughts or advice to make the transition smoother?

 

Short answer: with a little seniority, you can pull it off. With a lot of seniority it can be a really good thing.

Overly long winded answer:
With a lot of seniority CGN would be a really good situation on Z. Could get a fair amount of layovers on 74 but still looking at commuting where as on Z much less so. Those are both long term options. Senior Z trips have a DH or CML to and/or from Europe at the beginning/end of trip usually to cgn. So living there you get 2-3 paid days at home. The trips are 2 weeks with the weekend in cgn (Fri night to Sunday night). FO side to hold these trips consistently is 8+ yrs, maybe more. CPT side is all the top of the seniority list folk.

Medium seniority opens up 74. There’s a couple of guys that commute to ANC from various parts of Europe. They take advantage of DH’s on either end and some occasional FNP (fly no pay = ask a commuter to operate the flight for you. They get a guaranteed ride and you get leg covered. It’s a unique thing we do for each other at the IPA because we’re cool). You’d also get more Europe flying on Z as compared to being junior. 74 flies in and out of Europe, never really stays there.

For being junior and commuting you’re best off looking into 2 week on-off schedules so again Z and SDF 74. SDF 74 would probably get you more CGN layovers as Z Europe trips go senior. Prob with ANC 74 is commute, prob with SDF 74 and Z is having the seniority to hold it. So, best bet might be to take 75 domestic and grab week on off reserve as soon as you can and do a double commute (per month), maybe jump over to Z once you get some bodies under you or consider 74 based on what the dynamic with schedules looks like at that point. A lot of it will depend on what you can hold and which fleets are offering what. You want blocks of work with blocks of time off - so do most others. Therein lies the main problem.

If your spouse works and you can drop trips/credit then SDF domestic 76 or bus could work well. 1st year or two will be brutal so unless you don’t have kids and or your spouse is super cool, it probably won’t be worth your while to commute to CGN.

I wouldn’t recommend bus or MD because you’re just setting yourself up for another training event once you switch to the international fleet. But, they might provide a better initial commuting schedule or faster seniority climb.

So, all that to say work with what they give you and keep tabs on Z and 74 to see which will work better for you as time passes. Hopefully some others will chime in too.

Sorry for the rambling - no time to edit today. Good luck.