Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-02-2012, 03:18 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 793
Originally Posted by Free Bird
That's exactly my point GS. I know reserve sucks, especially for 4 or 5 years. This quest for equality by junior folks is getting old though. Should we do away with the years of service pay? How about every FO regardless of aircraft or years of service gets paid the same? That's equal. Maybe everyone gets 2 weekends off a month? That's fair. Im sure scheduling could come up with a system where senior and junior pilots fly approximately the same number of days per month. That's fair.
The seniority based system has nothing to do with what's fair. Come summer time, all reserves will be abused equally.
The seniority based system has nothing to do with what's fair. Come summer time, all reserves will be abused equally.
You can insert hyperbole in all you want to try and make your case, but it doesn't float. There's seniority in the system with line holders that allows for a manageable amount of fairness. The reserve system should not be less so just because under-represented junior pilots can be abused without penalty. Noticed I said "should." Big difference between that and "will", which is what these bucket values accomplish.
02-02-2012, 03:29 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Free Bird
Seems like many on here think that all of the reserve flying should be distributed equally. If that's the case, should we try and get the company to make all of the trips equal as well? All 4 day trips should have 2 days of garbage, (2 short overnights 5 legs per day) and 1 good overnight 2 days of easy flying. This way, seniority would only ensure days off and everyone would enjoy the same trip quality. That's the message I'm hearing from most of the new reserve system.................
Kudos to ALPA for making an improvement in the reserve system!
Anyone else think the buckets should move to 85?
Kudos to ALPA for making an improvement in the reserve system!
Anyone else think the buckets should move to 85?
Originally Posted by Free Bird
That's exactly my point GS. I know reserve sucks, especially for 4 or 5 years. This quest for equality by junior folks is getting old though. Should we do away with the years of service pay? How about every FO regardless of aircraft or years of service gets paid the same? That's equal. Maybe everyone gets 2 weekends off a month? That's fair. Im sure scheduling could come up with a system where senior and junior pilots fly approximately the same number of days per month. That's fair.
The seniority based system has nothing to do with what's fair. Come summer time, all reserves will be abused equally.
The seniority based system has nothing to do with what's fair. Come summer time, all reserves will be abused equally.
Originally Posted by Jesse
You would have plenty (more) of seniority in the system with smaller buckets. Going to the point where a senior pilot sits all month while another pilot does 13 days of flying is even more flawed. As FTB has pointed out, there isn't this much disparity between junior and senior pilots when it comes to line holders.
Originally Posted by Jesse
You can insert hyperbole in all you want to try and make your case, but it doesn't float. There's seniority in the system with line holders that allows for a manageable amount of fairness. The reserve system should not be less so just because under-represented junior pilots can be abused without penalty. Noticed I said "should." Big difference between that and "will", which is what these bucket values accomplish.
FWIW, I'm not close to flying this month. My bet is my first trip comes in week 3 of 4 unless the weather requires otherwise. Still don't agree with the system.
02-02-2012, 03:39 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 840
Originally Posted by slowplay
It is being done in phases (2 slot tranches). We're getting more gates.
02-02-2012, 03:55 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,921
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
its just means more guys gone and closer to the steady flow of retirements as we get closer to the full effects of age 65. Hey i'll take what i can get when it comes to guys leaving....
02-02-2012, 04:00 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by Jesse
You would have plenty (more) of seniority in the system with smaller buckets. Going to the point where a senior pilot sits all month while another pilot does 13 days of flying is even more flawed. As FTB has pointed out, there isn't this much disparity between junior and senior pilots when it comes to line holders.
And, as discussed before, the buckets will be adjusted by category. It is too early from my viewpoint to color an entire process based on what is now the second month of a new initiative.
Also, as a very junior line holder (occasionally) in LA, I can assure you that there is a significant difference between junior and senior QOLs. It seems commensurate with the difference between senior and junior on reserve.
02-02-2012, 04:08 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by The Cavalier
Raw means nothing within the same bucket. Only seniority. So if you are the junior guy within a bucket, you will be first in line until hitting 81 raw. If you are said pilot, congratulations, you work so others don't have to for 2-3 weeks. Precisely why myself and others have been saying 80 raw is way too high.
02-02-2012, 04:09 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL717A
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
I look at it the other way. Let's say they get rid of the 500 oldest pilots and don't replace them. How does that get us closer? If anything that gets us further away.
What? How does that get us further away? In my world, 500 senior guys leaving makes 500+ guys move up.
02-02-2012, 04:13 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
What LOE was it that discussed the change to OE recovery. If you are removed from a trip for OE, do we have any obligation anymore? Does the company still have until 12hrs prior to sign in to assign something different?
I can't seem to find that email.
Thanks,
I can't seem to find that email.
Thanks,
02-02-2012, 04:20 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL717A
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by 1234
What LOE was it that discussed the change to OE recovery. If you are removed from a trip for OE, do we have any obligation anymore? Does the company still have until 12hrs prior to sign in to assign something different?
I can't seem to find that email.
Thanks,
I can't seem to find that email.
Thanks,
Background
LOA #46 – Restructuring Changes to the Delta Pilot Working Agreement (the pre-bankruptcy agreement of 2004) created recovery obligations for the first time for a first officer who is removed from his rotation for another pilot’s OE. A Captain similarly removed for another pilot’s OE was subjected to no such recovery obligation. This OE recovery obligation was designed to be identical to the obligations of a pilot who is removed from his rotation due to an IROPS under Section 23 K.
OE recovery was subsequently reduced in 2007 in LOA #11 – Ocean Crossing Modification. Currently, OE recovery for a first officer must be assigned no later than 12 hours prior to the pilot’s originally scheduled report and must release no later than four hours after the pilot’s originally scheduled release or the end of the calendar day, whichever is later, even if the recovery flying contains an ocean crossing.
LOA#31 Changes
Effective with the January 2012 bid period, Section 23 G. 5. is modified to provide that a first officer who is removed from his rotation for another pilot’s OE will have no recovery obligation. He will continue to receive pay and credit for the value of the rotation from which he was removed and will have the option of picking up open time flying for additional pay. As part of this change, the Company will be permitted to remove a rotation that has been designated for OE from open time on or after the 25th of the prior month.
02-02-2012, 04:22 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,943
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
I look at it the other way. Let's say they get rid of the 500 oldest pilots and don't replace them. How does that get us closer? If anything that gets us further away.
It's like how pre-merge Delta and Northwest individually lost thousands of pilots from 2001 to 2008.
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