Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-02-2012 | 05:46 PM
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From: DAL
Let's say 100 pilots are supposed to reach 65 each year for the next 5 years. All 500 of them retire tomorrow. The company doesn't replace any of them. That seems to be the case. We are shrinking. Now the remaining oldest pilot on the list isn't suppose to retire until 2017. Our steady flow of retirements just got further away. How many pilots behind you is more important than how many in front of you. I would like to see us hire before guys ahead of me retire.
So unless the company draws down widebody flying, I guess shipping out 500 of the most senior guys beats a sharp stick in the eye.
02-02-2012 | 05:46 PM
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Let's say 100 pilots are supposed to reach 65 each year for the next 5 years. All 500 of them retire tomorrow. The company doesn't replace any of them. That seems to be the case. We are shrinking. Now the remaining oldest pilot on the list isn't suppose to retire until 2017. Our steady flow of retirements just got further away. How many pilots behind you is more important than how many in front of you. I would like to see us hire before guys ahead of me retire.
02-02-2012 | 06:07 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Anyone gotten to partake in the festivities in IND this week?
Including the chance to ride the ziplines?
Including the chance to ride the ziplines?
02-02-2012 | 06:33 PM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
You got this all wrong. As you noted, LAX works different. When a 3-day pops up, the senior guy does not get it.
Neither does the junior guy..
Alaska gets it.
For the rest of us, in all seriousness, it works just as you said but I believe you end up with the same result as Jesse was talking about: Days of availability > bucket > seniority.
I know the buckets will be adjusted by category but it might not. Hence, the push back. From my interactions nobody has told me that we'll adjust it different than it is now. Not even a "in March we'll evaluate and redo it per category based on the results of February and adjusted for block hour changes." From the emails I'm getting their is no intention to change it.
I guess it boils down to two questions:
1. How is it fair that there is not a system that gives top X% of regular pilots an SIL worth ALV but yet there is one for reserve?
2. The pay tables have incremental increases from years 1 through 12, but why not just have a flat pay rate from year 1 to 11 and then spike it at 12? There's a reason obviously, so why have a system that says if pilots schedules are identical then it's okay to have one pilot fly 0 and the pilot one number junior fly 50-60 hours?
That's my beef on the construction of the bucket systems if RAW sizes are not adjusted to a rational number per category going forward.
Neither does the junior guy..
Alaska gets it.
For the rest of us, in all seriousness, it works just as you said but I believe you end up with the same result as Jesse was talking about: Days of availability > bucket > seniority.
I know the buckets will be adjusted by category but it might not. Hence, the push back. From my interactions nobody has told me that we'll adjust it different than it is now. Not even a "in March we'll evaluate and redo it per category based on the results of February and adjusted for block hour changes." From the emails I'm getting their is no intention to change it.
I guess it boils down to two questions:
1. How is it fair that there is not a system that gives top X% of regular pilots an SIL worth ALV but yet there is one for reserve?
2. The pay tables have incremental increases from years 1 through 12, but why not just have a flat pay rate from year 1 to 11 and then spike it at 12? There's a reason obviously, so why have a system that says if pilots schedules are identical then it's okay to have one pilot fly 0 and the pilot one number junior fly 50-60 hours?
That's my beef on the construction of the bucket systems if RAW sizes are not adjusted to a rational number per category going forward.
02-02-2012 | 06:36 PM
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From: MSP7ERB
02-02-2012 | 06:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
02-02-2012 | 06:45 PM
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I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
02-02-2012 | 06:49 PM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
You're right, I've never had to swallow that sandwich, at least for 5 years. Hundreds of other Delta pilots and I had the cake walk of a 5 year furlough. The last 5 years I've been so insanely senior that I've had the privilege of only working about 85% of weekends and holidays, all on the mighty maddog.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
This isn't about blame, but about making it right.
Your experience being furloughed should have at the very least made you intimately familiar with the fact that seniority is our currency and it determines everything...
- Equipment
- Base
- Pay
- Days Off
- Vacation
- Quality of Life
- Employment Status
But there is a problem. While Delta has indeed hired a few pilots in the last few years, the number of pilots at Delta isn't rising but on the decline. There are fewer captain positions now than just a few years ago. That means the absolute seniority number while it might be going up is not "worth as much as it once was."
In essence what we have is seniority inflation, that is the same or better seniority you had a few years back is worth less today.
If we are going to run a seniority based system then there has to be a commitment to seniority growth. I don't want growth for growth's sake, but I do have trouble with the attitude of some reps and committee members that don't think seniority growth should be their concern at all...
In my opinion there are few pilots that haven't progressed to where they are all on their own accord. Most of us are where we are because of others lending a hand. To me, this industry comes with an implied responsibility to pay it forward and to leave the profession a better place than what we found.
But maybe I have it all wrong ;-)
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 02-02-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: quoting Freebird
02-02-2012 | 06:50 PM
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From: B757/767
02-02-2012 | 06:52 PM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
You're right, I've never had to swallow that sandwich, at least for 5 years. Hundreds of other Delta pilots and I had the cake walk of a 5 year furlough. The last 5 years I've been so insanely senior that I've had the privilege of only working about 85% of weekends and holidays, all on the mighty maddog.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
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