I don't think you guys are interpreting it correctly...at least the way it seems to be working in LA. The buckets only come into play when the seniority system has been run based on days available. If a senior guy (me) has three days available and there's a three day trip, guess who gets it? Me. If a junior guy flies trip, incurs some raw, but has less days available or its not a match for the days required, he doesn't get it. The senior guy does and then the seniority system comes into play again with the next bucket.

And, as discussed before, the buckets will be adjusted by category. It is too early from my viewpoint to color an entire process based on what is now the second month of a new initiative.

Also, as a very junior line holder (occasionally) in LA, I can assure you that there is a significant difference between junior and senior QOLs. It seems commensurate with the difference between senior and junior on reserve.

 

Do we know it will actually work this way or are there other details still to come that will prevent this scenario? Personally I am one of the folks who likes seniority based reserve (as long as its not manipulated or changed when jr becomes sr).

 

What? How does that get us further away? In my world, 500 senior guys leaving makes 500+ guys move up.

 

What LOE was it that discussed the change to OE recovery. If you are removed from a trip for OE, do we have any obligation anymore? Does the company still have until 12hrs prior to sign in to assign something different?

I can't seem to find that email.

Thanks,

 

Elimination of OE Recovery Obligations

Background

LOA #46 – Restructuring Changes to the Delta Pilot Working Agreement (the pre-bankruptcy agreement of 2004) created recovery obligations for the first time for a first officer who is removed from his rotation for another pilot’s OE. A Captain similarly removed for another pilot’s OE was subjected to no such recovery obligation. This OE recovery obligation was designed to be identical to the obligations of a pilot who is removed from his rotation due to an IROPS under Section 23 K.

OE recovery was subsequently reduced in 2007 in LOA #11 – Ocean Crossing Modification. Currently, OE recovery for a first officer must be assigned no later than 12 hours prior to the pilot’s originally scheduled report and must release no later than four hours after the pilot’s originally scheduled release or the end of the calendar day, whichever is later, even if the recovery flying contains an ocean crossing.
LOA#31 Changes

Effective with the January 2012 bid period, Section 23 G. 5. is modified to provide that a first officer who is removed from his rotation for another pilot’s OE will have no recovery obligation. He will continue to receive pay and credit for the value of the rotation from which he was removed and will have the option of picking up open time flying for additional pay. As part of this change, the Company will be permitted to remove a rotation that has been designated for OE from open time on or after the 25th of the prior month.

 

I agree with you.

It's like how pre-merge Delta and Northwest individually lost thousands of pilots from 2001 to 2008.

 

500 guys retiring in front of us will never be a bad thing. What it does is gets guys out so that instead of 2017 for the ball to start rolling it happens just that much sooner. At some point they'll have to start adding pilots and grow or go out of business. We're still young and have a lot of time left let this play out. and finally theres really no where else in the industry i'd rather be because stagnation is happening just about everywhere around our pay range. I biche alot about stagnation but in all honestly it could be alot worse, at least we arent AA

 

Absolutely true! Retirements+hiring would be even better

 

You got this all wrong. As you noted, LAX works different. When a 3-day pops up, the senior guy does not get it.

Neither does the junior guy..

Alaska gets it.

For the rest of us, in all seriousness, it works just as you said but I believe you end up with the same result as Jesse was talking about: Days of availability > bucket > seniority.

I know the buckets will be adjusted by category but it might not. Hence, the push back. From my interactions nobody has told me that we'll adjust it different than it is now. Not even a "in March we'll evaluate and redo it per category based on the results of February and adjusted for block hour changes." From the emails I'm getting their is no intention to change it.

I guess it boils down to two questions:

1. How is it fair that there is not a system that gives top X% of regular pilots an SIL worth ALV but yet there is one for reserve?

2. The pay tables have incremental increases from years 1 through 12, but why not just have a flat pay rate from year 1 to 11 and then spike it at 12? There's a reason obviously, so why have a system that says if pilots schedules are identical then it's okay to have one pilot fly 0 and the pilot one number junior fly 50-60 hours?

That's my beef on the construction of the bucket systems if RAW sizes are not adjusted to a rational number per category going forward.

 

What is this?