Best Career Path?
10-05-2015, 06:09 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,211
LR - "I guess the real question here is what do the mainline folks like to see, slightly lower TT and a good amount of PIC time or the opposite?"
That's the point of making realistic assumptions about your resume if you choose to stay with just the C-17's or do the regional and C-17 route. Generic words, IMO, are meaningless.
What's "a good amount of TPIC time" vs. "the opposite"? Is it 4,000 hrs, 2200 hrs 121, one or two civilian type ratings and 1800 hrs milita
ry with 500 hrs TPIC in three years(1,000 hrs/year, 700+ 121, 275 mil w/180 TPIC/year)?
What's the pure C-17 route? 1900 hrs TT with 600 hrs TPIC(300 hrs/year w/200 TPIC)? What can you generate if you bust your ass? How much if you say "ah, that's good enough?" What's your drive?
Assess your options and project that into two different resume/career tracks.
Project that out for the next five years. If you go to a regional in five years you might have upgraded. What's your plan of action if it takes five years? Eight years?
A family is great. Kids are great. It sucks having to bust your ass when it takes time away from your family. But every month sooner that you get hired is over $27,000 a month, in today's dollars, at the end of your career. Getting hired six months sooner is a free college education for one of your kids. Get hired a year earlier and it's two college educations. Seniority really matters. You'll see the difference every month you bid. That's why guys are scrambling to get hired.
The majority of airline guys will tell you that keeping the pedal to the metal is important until you get hired with a major. I don't think I've met the guy yet that said "I wish I was hired later".
Guy had a flow date about 18 months in the future. He was waiting for it to happen. I asked him why? Hadn't he'd busted his ass to improve his resume and abilities? With a guaranteed job he took his foot of the gas and was waiting for his class date(flow). Twenty plus years of drive disappeared because he had a flow date in 18 months? He took it to heart, started chasing the job and got hired 200-300 numbers sooner. Everyone wishes they were 200-300 numbers more senior.
There are no easy answers. The harder you work now the more likely you'll reach whatever gates the majors might have for you sooner.
Good luck.
That's the point of making realistic assumptions about your resume if you choose to stay with just the C-17's or do the regional and C-17 route. Generic words, IMO, are meaningless.
What's "a good amount of TPIC time" vs. "the opposite"? Is it 4,000 hrs, 2200 hrs 121, one or two civilian type ratings and 1800 hrs milita
ry with 500 hrs TPIC in three years(1,000 hrs/year, 700+ 121, 275 mil w/180 TPIC/year)?
What's the pure C-17 route? 1900 hrs TT with 600 hrs TPIC(300 hrs/year w/200 TPIC)? What can you generate if you bust your ass? How much if you say "ah, that's good enough?" What's your drive?
Assess your options and project that into two different resume/career tracks.
Project that out for the next five years. If you go to a regional in five years you might have upgraded. What's your plan of action if it takes five years? Eight years?
A family is great. Kids are great. It sucks having to bust your ass when it takes time away from your family. But every month sooner that you get hired is over $27,000 a month, in today's dollars, at the end of your career. Getting hired six months sooner is a free college education for one of your kids. Get hired a year earlier and it's two college educations. Seniority really matters. You'll see the difference every month you bid. That's why guys are scrambling to get hired.
The majority of airline guys will tell you that keeping the pedal to the metal is important until you get hired with a major. I don't think I've met the guy yet that said "I wish I was hired later".
Guy had a flow date about 18 months in the future. He was waiting for it to happen. I asked him why? Hadn't he'd busted his ass to improve his resume and abilities? With a guaranteed job he took his foot of the gas and was waiting for his class date(flow). Twenty plus years of drive disappeared because he had a flow date in 18 months? He took it to heart, started chasing the job and got hired 200-300 numbers sooner. Everyone wishes they were 200-300 numbers more senior.
There are no easy answers. The harder you work now the more likely you'll reach whatever gates the majors might have for you sooner.
Good luck.
10-05-2015, 06:27 PM
#12
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by Sliceback
LR - "I guess the real question here is what do the mainline folks like to see, slightly lower TT and a good amount of PIC time or the opposite?"
That's the point of making realistic assumptions about your resume if you choose to stay with just the C-17's or do the regional and C-17 route. Generic words, IMO, are meaningless.
What's "a good amount of TPIC time" vs. "the opposite"? Is it 4,000 hrs, 2200 hrs 121, one or two civilian type ratings and 1800 hrs milita
ry with 500 hrs TPIC in three years(1,000 hrs/year, 700+ 121, 275 mil w/180 TPIC/year)?
What's the pure C-17 route? 1900 hrs TT with 600 hrs TPIC(300 hrs/year w/200 TPIC)? What can you generate if you bust your ass? How much if you say "ah, that's good enough?" What's your drive?
Assess your options and project that into two different resume/career tracks.
Project that out for the next five years. If you go to a regional in five years you might have upgraded. What's your plan of action if it takes five years? Eight years?
A family is great. Kids are great. It sucks having to bust your ass when it takes time away from your family. But every month sooner that you get hired is over $27,000 a month, in today's dollars, at the end of your career. Getting hired six months sooner is a free college education for one of your kids. Get hired a year earlier and it's two college educations. Seniority really matters. You'll see the difference every month you bid. That's why guys are scrambling to get hired.
The majority of airline guys will tell you that keeping the pedal to the metal is important until you get hired with a major. I don't think I've met the guy yet that said "I wish I was hired later".
Guy had a flow date about 18 months in the future. He was waiting for it to happen. I asked him why? Hadn't he'd busted his ass to improve his resume and abilities? With a guaranteed job he took his foot of the gas and was waiting for his class date(flow). Twenty plus years of drive disappeared because he had a flow date in 18 months? He took it to heart, started chasing the job and got hired 200-300 numbers sooner. Everyone wishes they were 200-300 numbers more senior.
There are no easy answers. The harder you work now the more likely you'll reach whatever gates the majors might have for you sooner.
Good luck.
That's the point of making realistic assumptions about your resume if you choose to stay with just the C-17's or do the regional and C-17 route. Generic words, IMO, are meaningless.
What's "a good amount of TPIC time" vs. "the opposite"? Is it 4,000 hrs, 2200 hrs 121, one or two civilian type ratings and 1800 hrs milita
ry with 500 hrs TPIC in three years(1,000 hrs/year, 700+ 121, 275 mil w/180 TPIC/year)?
What's the pure C-17 route? 1900 hrs TT with 600 hrs TPIC(300 hrs/year w/200 TPIC)? What can you generate if you bust your ass? How much if you say "ah, that's good enough?" What's your drive?
Assess your options and project that into two different resume/career tracks.
Project that out for the next five years. If you go to a regional in five years you might have upgraded. What's your plan of action if it takes five years? Eight years?
A family is great. Kids are great. It sucks having to bust your ass when it takes time away from your family. But every month sooner that you get hired is over $27,000 a month, in today's dollars, at the end of your career. Getting hired six months sooner is a free college education for one of your kids. Get hired a year earlier and it's two college educations. Seniority really matters. You'll see the difference every month you bid. That's why guys are scrambling to get hired.
The majority of airline guys will tell you that keeping the pedal to the metal is important until you get hired with a major. I don't think I've met the guy yet that said "I wish I was hired later".
Guy had a flow date about 18 months in the future. He was waiting for it to happen. I asked him why? Hadn't he'd busted his ass to improve his resume and abilities? With a guaranteed job he took his foot of the gas and was waiting for his class date(flow). Twenty plus years of drive disappeared because he had a flow date in 18 months? He took it to heart, started chasing the job and got hired 200-300 numbers sooner. Everyone wishes they were 200-300 numbers more senior.
There are no easy answers. The harder you work now the more likely you'll reach whatever gates the majors might have for you sooner.
Good luck.
As you stated keeping that drive in my flying career is key. I try not to get to comfortable for very long. If I has I would be working one week a month just to bring in a little extra cash and stay at my current residence. With the dynamics of hiring changing so quickly over the past few years I think it will be important to just keep my ear to the railways and listen for what's coming.
Thanks again for your opinion Sliceback.
10-06-2015, 07:43 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,297
Originally Posted by Gilligan13
What can a person bumming expect to make a year? Why not do both and mil drop when you can.
10-07-2015, 08:08 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,211
Looking at the DL data I posted (sourced by someone else) in the 'Major' section it looks like you need 2100 hrs to reach the avg TT of their mil newhire. For the combined civ/mil category you need about 3900 hrs.
So the question is how long will it take to get another 2100 hrs in the C-17? 3900 hrs 121/C-17 in four years is achieveable if you're willing to hustle.
It you decide to fly for a commuter pick the closest one. Is there that's within driving distance? That's choice #1 to #10.
So the question is how long will it take to get another 2100 hrs in the C-17? 3900 hrs 121/C-17 in four years is achieveable if you're willing to hustle.
It you decide to fly for a commuter pick the closest one. Is there that's within driving distance? That's choice #1 to #10.
10-07-2015, 08:46 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: 737
Posts: 144
I'm C-130 driver for the Reserves and chose to go the regional route. I would highly recommend it to check the 121 box, add a type rating, and build hours. Having the flexibility to do both jobs is awesome. You definitely do not want to commute to both. I'm home based for the airline and commute for a 1 hour flight to the Reserves. I drop MIL leave in moderation and I've never had a problem with pay or the airline. Send me a PM if you have questions, I'd be happy to help.
Herc
Herc
10-07-2015, 12:09 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,211
Talked with a guy from my former ANG unit -
Guys separating from the service with 3000 hrs TT fighter got immediate traction.
New guys coming up didn't get any traction until 1500 hrs TT fighter w/IP qual.
Dual track mil/civ getting called at 2500 TT with 1000 hrs fighter and IP qual.
Couple pure mil guys coming up on 2000 hrs TT (all fighter/TPIC post SUPT/UPT) with no traction. Considering 121 route to get 121/additional type rating boxes checked.
Guys separating from the service with 3000 hrs TT fighter got immediate traction.
New guys coming up didn't get any traction until 1500 hrs TT fighter w/IP qual.
Dual track mil/civ getting called at 2500 TT with 1000 hrs fighter and IP qual.
Couple pure mil guys coming up on 2000 hrs TT (all fighter/TPIC post SUPT/UPT) with no traction. Considering 121 route to get 121/additional type rating boxes checked.
10-08-2015, 03:26 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 900
I recommend moving closer to the unit and suck that MPA teet while it still exists. Gain experience and try to become as much of an expert in your weapon system as you can. Fly your arse off and upgrade to AC. Become more of an asset to your unit and not a long distance problem child (not saying that you are one now...). You never know when the airline industry will tank... again. If your unit likes you and you work hard, you could be one of the first people they want working there full-time if for some reason you're furloughed and need to keep the lights on. We've got a few guys who try to do the whole guard/airline thing while living 500+ miles away and as a fulltimer, I can say they're a bit of a pain in the rear end, but when you live that far away from your part-time job, the part-time job will be what takes the back burner when your other life gets busy.
I say all this understanding how important seniority is, but I don't think doing the regional thing is the answer. Your path to PIC time is quicker in the C-17 and it's 4-engine, heavy turbine time with worldwide mobility responsibilities, which will enable you to bypass the regionals in 3 years or so. With 40,000+ airline pilots slated to retire over the next 25 years, the majors will definitely still be hiring in 2019. I don't think we've even seen the explosion of hiring that will happen in a few years. They'll only be able to deplete the regionals so much.
As an ART with the guard, I've made more money in milpay this year so far as an O-4 +12 than an 8 year FO with ExpressJet. Other than one 30 day rotation to the desert this year, I didn't really have the option to suck up MPA either. I'm not pitching the full-time thing at all because I have an app in with a major airline right now, but I'm saying you can make good money as a bum doing cooler stuff for now. Sounds like you're young, motivated and not a bitter/jaded, crusty old major or Lt Col yet so take advantage of that while you've still got the drive.
I say all this understanding how important seniority is, but I don't think doing the regional thing is the answer. Your path to PIC time is quicker in the C-17 and it's 4-engine, heavy turbine time with worldwide mobility responsibilities, which will enable you to bypass the regionals in 3 years or so. With 40,000+ airline pilots slated to retire over the next 25 years, the majors will definitely still be hiring in 2019. I don't think we've even seen the explosion of hiring that will happen in a few years. They'll only be able to deplete the regionals so much.
As an ART with the guard, I've made more money in milpay this year so far as an O-4 +12 than an 8 year FO with ExpressJet. Other than one 30 day rotation to the desert this year, I didn't really have the option to suck up MPA either. I'm not pitching the full-time thing at all because I have an app in with a major airline right now, but I'm saying you can make good money as a bum doing cooler stuff for now. Sounds like you're young, motivated and not a bitter/jaded, crusty old major or Lt Col yet so take advantage of that while you've still got the drive.
10-08-2015, 11:44 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 523
Originally Posted by TankerDriver
I recommend moving closer to the unit and suck that MPA teet while it still exists. Gain experience and try to become as much of an expert in your weapon system as you can. Fly your arse off and upgrade to AC. Become more of an asset to your unit and not a long distance problem child (not saying that you are one now...). You never know when the airline industry will tank... again. If your unit likes you and you work hard, you could be one of the first people they want working there full-time if for some reason you're furloughed and need to keep the lights on. We've got a few guys who try to do the whole guard/airline thing while living 500+ miles away and as a fulltimer, I can say they're a bit of a pain in the rear end, but when you live that far away from your part-time job, the part-time job will be what takes the back burner when your other life gets busy.
I say all this understanding how important seniority is, but I don't think doing the regional thing is the answer. Your path to PIC time is quicker in the C-17 and it's 4-engine, heavy turbine time with worldwide mobility responsibilities, which will enable you to bypass the regionals in 3 years or so. With 40,000+ airline pilots slated to retire over the next 25 years, the majors will definitely still be hiring in 2019. I don't think we've even seen the explosion of hiring that will happen in a few years. They'll only be able to deplete the regionals so much.
As an ART with the guard, I've made more money in milpay this year so far as an O-4 +12 than an 8 year FO with ExpressJet. Other than one 30 day rotation to the desert this year, I didn't really have the option to suck up MPA either. I'm not pitching the full-time thing at all because I have an app in with a major airline right now, but I'm saying you can make good money as a bum doing cooler stuff for now. Sounds like you're young, motivated and not a bitter/jaded, crusty old major or Lt Col yet so take advantage of that while you've still got the drive.
I say all this understanding how important seniority is, but I don't think doing the regional thing is the answer. Your path to PIC time is quicker in the C-17 and it's 4-engine, heavy turbine time with worldwide mobility responsibilities, which will enable you to bypass the regionals in 3 years or so. With 40,000+ airline pilots slated to retire over the next 25 years, the majors will definitely still be hiring in 2019. I don't think we've even seen the explosion of hiring that will happen in a few years. They'll only be able to deplete the regionals so much.
As an ART with the guard, I've made more money in milpay this year so far as an O-4 +12 than an 8 year FO with ExpressJet. Other than one 30 day rotation to the desert this year, I didn't really have the option to suck up MPA either. I'm not pitching the full-time thing at all because I have an app in with a major airline right now, but I'm saying you can make good money as a bum doing cooler stuff for now. Sounds like you're young, motivated and not a bitter/jaded, crusty old major or Lt Col yet so take advantage of that while you've still got the drive.
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