Pinchanickled

The word in the crewroom yesterday was that the "North Mississippi Flying Club" has quietly hired a lawyer to sue the PNCL MEC over their signing bonus distribution amount being drastically reduced by the new method of distribution. For those of you from other airlines who don't know who the NMSFC is, it's the commonly used term to refer to the ultra senior check airmen at Pinnacle who double dip the open time and sim events and credit monthly of 130-150 hours of pay at max captain pay while busting people on line checks and pc's weekly. Now they are mad as hell (if you can imagine that)!

Apparently, the signing bonus for the very senior check airmen was to be in the $25,000-$40,000 dollar range via the "old method" that was to be distributed in proportion to your W2, in the event that TA1 passed. Essentially the more your W2 was last year, the more you would have received on your signing bonus. While the 2-3 year first officers only made $1,000-$3,000. Now that there's a new method for distribution, It balances out the top heavy pay outs to make things more fair to everyone who has lost tremendous amounts of money by not having a contract.

Do these guys have a leg to stand on in court?


BTW IMHO, I think it should be equal for everyone like UPS did recently with their signing bonus.

Blueskies21

I guess that would depend on whether there is any case law to support their theory that they should get bonus'd more. I personally have no idea if such case law exists. I would think it probably doesn't, for the reason that bonus's that aren't contractual probably aren't the subject of many litigations. Doesn't stop them from hiring a lawyer. Good for the lawyer, he makes money either way. Bad for them if it turns out they don't have any precedent. Just because a lawyer has been hired doesn't mean anything will get done, besides the lawyers bill paid.

Kellwolf

There's a process in place via the ALPA manuals if you've got a dispute. I don't know the exact sections or details (but the reps will). Odds are if they sue without going through that process first, it's gonna be an expensive thing to see tossed out.....

Even if it's not tossed out, once the lawyers get their chunk of the deal, they'll probably be taking home about the same amount as they would under the new method anyway. Seems kinda silly to me. Then again, my signing bonus would be equally bad either way since I'm in the middle of the road.

IBPilot

that's odd I heard it was some Jr guys who were mad that they weren't getting as much as someone who has been here since May 2005. I guess we will find out soon enough. Why would a senior guy sue since they said they would get greater of W2 or the new formula? doesn't make sense.

mooney

Most of the people at UPS were in the same boat relatively seniority wise (very small percentage hired since contract amendable). we have over 50% of our pilot group hired since '05 when it became amendable, making a larger gap in seniority. Personally I don't think a guy who has been here since '08-09 should get as much as someone who has been here since amendable in '05. YMMV especially if you are in that '08 group....

one man's equal is another man's unfair

lolwut

Wow, a "signing bonus" for a new contract is netting some pilots 40x what it nets other pilots?

Thats flat out wrong. If it happens, that amounts to legally stealing from your fellow pilots.

mooney

it is a very small percentage getting that. maybe 10 guys if that I'm guessing. But yes that is a bit excessive...

to play devils advocate and watch the arguments, is it stealing when someone who has been here 2 years and is going to get a hypothetical $2000 wants to take $3000 of the guy's money who has been here 5 years and was going to get 8K but is now only gets 5K because the 2 year guy thinks he deserves as much? who has lost out on more lost wages/bennies over that time period?

hold on lemme make some popcorn...

fwiw my bonus is about middle of the road any way we do it so i'm not totally biased...

lolwut

If its retro pay, make it retro pay. Negotiate for it. My guess is the junior guys will still get more money than today (bigger percentage increases to the junior pay vs senior).

If its a signing bonus, make it a signing bonus. Sure, you can add in something here and there maybe to benefit those who have been under the expired contract longer, but everything should be within the same range. There shouldn't be one pilot making more than say, twice, any other pilot.

40x is completely ridiculous. You're supplementing your income off the backs of your fellow, poorer, pilots. I'm still astounded to hear this. Its people using their influence and power within the group to vote their way into the collective pocketbook of the pilot group. The extra money they're getting isn't coming from them successfully negotiating it from the company, its coming from their fellow pilots. And thats wrong.


Personally, if I was you guys, I'd take all that money and use it towards something for the pilot group as a whole. Use it to buy the best lawyers in the world and negotiate yourself a good contract. Or use it to lobby politicians to be able to strike. You'll make the money back quick.

Pinchanickled

Hope you made alot of popcorn Mooney!!!

It is infact just 10 guys who are the problem. However only 7 members of the NMSFC have signed up for a lawyer.

130 credit hours @ $82 = $10,660/month X 12 months = $127,920/year
150 credit hours @ $82 = $12,300/month X 12 months = $147,600/year

These 10 members of the NMSFC are ALL rejects from the major airlines. Either they failed out of college or they flunked the interviews at the majors. So, by default, they have found themselves at the top of the seniority list, at a regional airline. They are bitter to no end as they watch countless pilots come in below them on the seniority list, and then move on to fly wide body jets to far off destinations making the big bucks and living out every pilots dream. Now, people just call in sick to avoid working with them if they get them assigned for a PC or line check..........to the point where they came up with a policy now that says if you call in sick for one of these tools, then you are required to be rescheduled with the exact same check airmen.


I have no sympathy for the NMSFC members who are getting less money on a signing bonus when their salaries have been FAR above their peers.

I do have sympathy on the first officers who have families to support on a $25,000/year salary and think they should be rewarded greatly after ALPA sued PNCL management for trying to give us a raise a few years ago. The FO's toughed it out, and then get dumped on.

These 7 guys are losers who have made their regrets and problems, everyone elses problem.....and definently don't "deserve" more than others who have been living a tough life as an FO for the past few years.

Kellwolf

To bust the hypothetical, you can't have stolen what was never rightfully yours to begin with. If we had just had a communication that said "The company has attached $10 million to be allocated as a signing bonus once the TA is ratified" and no one knew what they were getting, this wouldn't even be an issue. As it is, some guys went "Holy crap! I'm getting more than two first year FOs together. I'm gonna go buy another car or a boat!!!" Then the TA was voted down. They see it as they're losing money, but how can they lose what was never theirs to start with?

They're also pushing to recall one of the guys that came up with the new, more fair method of bonus distribution even though it was a unanimous vote on the MEC. Might as well recall EVERY ONE of the MEC members, too. They voted for it.

Personally, I'm for a fair distribution. I'd LOVE to see full retro, but at this point the company couldn't afford it. I'd be looking at a six figure check myself, and I've only been here for close to 5 years, 2 of those as an FO. So, the best thing to do is be as fair as possible, which I think the new method is. It's a "best of both worlds" scenario, but the senior guys that were gonna be catching a windfall in TA1 think their world is should be bigger.