Go for the Quick Upgrade
03-02-2015, 06:51 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by qazWSX
There is an "Elephant in the Room" that no one wants to address.
The 'Quick Upgrade'.
Go to the regional that you can upgrade to Captain the quickest.
But when are you really ready for it?
Sure, as I've heard for years, you can land the aircraft as good as I can. Yes, you can mash the buttons on the FMS faster than I can. Yes. you went through systems class last year, I went through 10 years ago when nobody knew the ramifications of the systems and how they have played out since.
But are you really ready to be a Captain?
Company tells you to ferry the aircraft without a critical engine instrument (torque/fuel flow/etc) Can you stand up to that? The winglet was damaged by a tug, but they speed taped it and "should be good to ferry to maintenance"?
You got the guts to refuse? Or just "do it and grieve it " later?
You have two FA's that don't get along over something stupid en route to the out station and refuses to fly back to the hub with them? What you gonna do now, college boy?
The gate agent refuses to deal with the jump seater that has his nose pressed to the window 20 minutes before the last departure.
The FA's have a squabble with gate agent over who gets to sit in the last First Class seat.
Company requests you to extend your duty day: works for you. FO has to buy a motel on his dime, FA's are stranded,what do you decide? Best for you? And screw the crew? Or best for the crew and suck it up?
Too many scenarios to post, and others may bring up others. But being a "Captain" involves more than your ability to fly the aircraft.
But at 1500 hours or 2500 hours or 3000 hours? Do hours matter?
"Yep, I can handle it , I'm ready to be Captain"
Really?
The 'Quick Upgrade'.
Go to the regional that you can upgrade to Captain the quickest.
But when are you really ready for it?
Sure, as I've heard for years, you can land the aircraft as good as I can. Yes, you can mash the buttons on the FMS faster than I can. Yes. you went through systems class last year, I went through 10 years ago when nobody knew the ramifications of the systems and how they have played out since.
But are you really ready to be a Captain?
Company tells you to ferry the aircraft without a critical engine instrument (torque/fuel flow/etc) Can you stand up to that? The winglet was damaged by a tug, but they speed taped it and "should be good to ferry to maintenance"?
You got the guts to refuse? Or just "do it and grieve it " later?
You have two FA's that don't get along over something stupid en route to the out station and refuses to fly back to the hub with them? What you gonna do now, college boy?
The gate agent refuses to deal with the jump seater that has his nose pressed to the window 20 minutes before the last departure.
The FA's have a squabble with gate agent over who gets to sit in the last First Class seat.
Company requests you to extend your duty day: works for you. FO has to buy a motel on his dime, FA's are stranded,what do you decide? Best for you? And screw the crew? Or best for the crew and suck it up?
Too many scenarios to post, and others may bring up others. But being a "Captain" involves more than your ability to fly the aircraft.
But at 1500 hours or 2500 hours or 3000 hours? Do hours matter?
"Yep, I can handle it , I'm ready to be Captain"
Really?
03-02-2015, 06:52 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,066
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Instead of being a major d-bag, that would have been a great time to mentor. Something a lot of CA lack the ability to do.
You aren't going to see it all from the right seat before heading to te left. I don't know what you expected of him.
You aren't going to see it all from the right seat before heading to te left. I don't know what you expected of him.
"So you want to get a hold of them via ACARS to let them know about your new altitude restriction to get a new fuel burn? DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! Are you a moron? You have to use ARINC."
03-02-2015, 06:53 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Captain - Retired
Posts: 265
I think it's a good discussion. I upgraded after about a thousand hours in the right seat but simultaneously transitioned to a new type. Back then you didn't get hired in the first place unless you already had a bunch of multi and PIC time under your belt so I already had several thousand hours total.
Washout rates were very high and the upgrade was challenging. We did NDB approaches and circling approaches and there was no GPS or autopilot or glass or FMS. There were no such thing as regional jets.
I made mistakes on the line that cost the company money here and there...nothing major but I learned from those mistakes and didn't repeat them. I made sure my First Officers knew every mistake I made when the opportunity presented itself and why.
Unfortunately it seems many airlines don't seem to factor in those common "new captain mistakes" into their labor costs. I would have greatly benefited from more years in the right seat but instead I learned on the line.
At the time every single FO felt ready to be a captain and most of them made it. Usually you don't know how little you know until you are sitting in that seat.
My issue today is that most pilots get their first captain experience with similar time in the left seat of a large jet carrying far more passengers than I did back then.
Washout rates were very high and the upgrade was challenging. We did NDB approaches and circling approaches and there was no GPS or autopilot or glass or FMS. There were no such thing as regional jets.
I made mistakes on the line that cost the company money here and there...nothing major but I learned from those mistakes and didn't repeat them. I made sure my First Officers knew every mistake I made when the opportunity presented itself and why.
Unfortunately it seems many airlines don't seem to factor in those common "new captain mistakes" into their labor costs. I would have greatly benefited from more years in the right seat but instead I learned on the line.
At the time every single FO felt ready to be a captain and most of them made it. Usually you don't know how little you know until you are sitting in that seat.
My issue today is that most pilots get their first captain experience with similar time in the left seat of a large jet carrying far more passengers than I did back then.
03-02-2015, 07:07 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Originally Posted by CBreezy
I bet even if the FO would have answered correctly, CCB would have corrected him that he was doing it wrong.
"So you want to get a hold of them via ACARS to let them know about your new altitude restriction to get a new fuel burn? DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! Are you a moron? You have to use ARINC."
"So you want to get a hold of them via ACARS to let them know about your new altitude restriction to get a new fuel burn? DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! Are you a moron? You have to use ARINC."
03-02-2015, 07:20 AM
#25
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by wrxpilot
Yep. We've all seen the type... Insecure, micromanaging, and condescending at every opportunity. One thing every one of them have in common - poor airmanship. It is the root cause of their inferiority complex. Fortunately they are pretty rare, but when I do come across one, it's only a matter of time before their "superior" abilities have us filling out an ASAP.
" Insecure, micromanaging, and condescending at every opportunity" you have just described yourself......
03-02-2015, 07:25 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,066
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom
Once again, your lack of reading/comprehension abilities is astounding, probably on the same level as your flying abilities. When you and some of your ilk sit in the right seat and pontificate about how ready you are to upgrade, plenty of us realize that talking to you is often a waste of time. Where have I alluded to "superior" abilities, no where, what I do have is the luxury of some experience, good and bad.
" Insecure, micromanaging, and condescending at every opportunity" you have just described yourself......
" Insecure, micromanaging, and condescending at every opportunity" you have just described yourself......
On the other side of things, there is a difference between someone just spouting off about being ready to upgrade (most likely a small few) and those trying to have a meaningful discussion...or even passively doing it so that maybe you'd help them out. The silent treatment is unproductive at every level.
03-02-2015, 07:40 AM
#27
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Do we all know FOs who think they should be Captains but shouldn't? Do we know the ones who have no problem telling you about it? Sure. The same could be said for Captains who have been around for a decade and probably should hang it up. There are bad apples in every bunch.
On the other side of things, there is a difference between someone just spouting off about being ready to upgrade (most likely a small few) and those trying to have a meaningful discussion...or even passively doing it so that maybe you'd help them out. The silent treatment is unproductive at every level.
On the other side of things, there is a difference between someone just spouting off about being ready to upgrade (most likely a small few) and those trying to have a meaningful discussion...or even passively doing it so that maybe you'd help them out. The silent treatment is unproductive at every level.
03-02-2015, 07:45 AM
#28
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by wrxpilot
Yep. Fortunately they are pretty rare, but when I do come across one, it's only a matter of time before their "superior" abilities have us filling out an ASAP.
03-02-2015, 07:56 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,066
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom
And once again, you are only partially correct grasshopper. These("most likely a small few") are more numerous than you might imagine. Why do you think I come here and spend my coffee drinking time trying to get you guys to think outside your boxes? If you want to hear about hard lessons learned, you have to be willing to listen. You and wrx and a couple of others think you can come here and "cyberbully" me and the few other guys who come here and type stuff that doesn't match your expectations and think that your snarky replies will silence us, it won't. What I have done is typed some personal experiences, and you don't like that, for what reason I cannot fathom. Oh well its like talking quantum physics to my dog, he listens, but doesn't really add much to the conversation.
Are you really throwing the term cyberbullying around? That's mature. "They don't agree with me therefore they are BULLYING me." Real mature.
I'm sorry that a dissenting opinion of what leadership and a Captain's responsibility is makes you feel victimized. I'm not bullying you. I'm clearly stating that most regional Captains are far more interested in "doing things my way because I'm in charge" or staring out the window types than actually mentoring or having any sort of meaningful interaction at all. Just so you don't closed-mindedly put me in one of your boxes, I've never once brought up my "upgrade" with a Captain. I don't talk about it at all. Nor do I tell him how great of a pilot I am. I sit quietly and share my opinions when asked and tells stories when inquired. I will say this though. I can count on my hands the number of times a Captain has consulted me when making a decision in a non-time critical moment. On the other hand, I have sat and listened quietly countless times while guys have stood on their soap box and pontificated about how great they are and how hard it is to be a Captain while simultaneously trying to blow an altitude restriction.
03-02-2015, 07:58 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,066
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom
Yep, if you wait until its ASAP time to say something, you are more than part of the problem. You are the problem. Speaks volumes to your attitude, lots of things can be fixed/adjusted, attitude is the hardest.
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