Skywest vs. envoy
11-29-2015, 02:52 PM
#21
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Originally Posted by Motoxer517
Hello all and happy holidays, so I'll lay it out as clear as I can
I have 1200+ hrs and have been interviewing with a few regionals
I landed an offer with envoy pending 1500 hrs (all other requirements are met)
I have been in contact with others including Skywest who I have in interview with in December
I will be commuting from California( not moving for now)
So here my question, what do you guys think about either company for present and future. I see it more simply as this
30$ an hour at Sky west compared to 24 @ envoy
Sky west has a 2 month reserve
Envoy is 2/5 years
Sky west is non Union and no flow
Envoy does
Please chime in thanks!
I have 1200+ hrs and have been interviewing with a few regionals
I landed an offer with envoy pending 1500 hrs (all other requirements are met)
I have been in contact with others including Skywest who I have in interview with in December
I will be commuting from California( not moving for now)
So here my question, what do you guys think about either company for present and future. I see it more simply as this
30$ an hour at Sky west compared to 24 @ envoy
Sky west has a 2 month reserve
Envoy is 2/5 years
Sky west is non Union and no flow
Envoy does
Please chime in thanks!
11-29-2015, 03:24 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,480
Originally Posted by Check Complete
Other things to consider:
Even though new hires aren't sitting reserve for very long, at some point you will upgrade and you will sit for years on reserve as a Captain. SkyWest reserve is a unique kind of hell that has no real description. On reserve at SkyWest, you will be treated on a sub human scale. Of all the people that I've run into that left SkyWest for a total different career left because of the way they were treated by SkyWest on reserve. If you come here consider yourself warned.
Training failures, have been mounting and are climbing higher, as a percetage. There has been a total turn over of training department management and there is little room for issues. Many new ground and sim instructors that have zilch experience. Lots of new LCA's again with little experience. Until you have finished your IOE your CP cannot help you, you are at the mercy of some new training department micro manager that is out to make a name for themselves.
If I was in your position, flow would have a lot of weight in my decision.
The upgrade at SkyWest is at least 3 years and things could change over night and come to a grinding halt.
There is no way I could bunk up with another person for 2 months, SkyWest only offers rooms with 2 guys in them, nice way to start your "first class career"!
I'm senior SkyWest, I would go Compass, Envoy, Republic in that order.
Even though new hires aren't sitting reserve for very long, at some point you will upgrade and you will sit for years on reserve as a Captain. SkyWest reserve is a unique kind of hell that has no real description. On reserve at SkyWest, you will be treated on a sub human scale. Of all the people that I've run into that left SkyWest for a total different career left because of the way they were treated by SkyWest on reserve. If you come here consider yourself warned.
Training failures, have been mounting and are climbing higher, as a percetage. There has been a total turn over of training department management and there is little room for issues. Many new ground and sim instructors that have zilch experience. Lots of new LCA's again with little experience. Until you have finished your IOE your CP cannot help you, you are at the mercy of some new training department micro manager that is out to make a name for themselves.
If I was in your position, flow would have a lot of weight in my decision.
The upgrade at SkyWest is at least 3 years and things could change over night and come to a grinding halt.
There is no way I could bunk up with another person for 2 months, SkyWest only offers rooms with 2 guys in them, nice way to start your "first class career"!
I'm senior SkyWest, I would go Compass, Envoy, Republic in that order.
Flows are a joke. Republic is a complete mess. Skywest training is not that difficult. Yes there are failures, but mostly because they are hiring anyone who walks in the door. I have gone through both CRJ and ERJ training. Both are great programs.
I have been at Skywest about 18 months. I have moved up 500 numbers and have over 1000 below me. We seem to be the only company taking on more flying while everyone else is struggling to keep what they have.
11-29-2015, 04:39 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,599
Originally Posted by word302
Wow really? He lives in CA. I wouldn't consider anyone but Skywest or Compass. There are a lot of Compass guys saying Skywest now that things have slowed down.
Flows are a joke. Republic is a complete mess. Skywest training is not that difficult. Yes there are failures, but mostly because they are hiring anyone who walks in the door. I have gone through both CRJ and ERJ training. Both are great programs.
I have been at Skywest about 18 months. I have moved up 500 numbers and have over 1000 below me. We seem to be the only company taking on more flying while everyone else is struggling to keep what they have.
Flows are a joke. Republic is a complete mess. Skywest training is not that difficult. Yes there are failures, but mostly because they are hiring anyone who walks in the door. I have gone through both CRJ and ERJ training. Both are great programs.
I have been at Skywest about 18 months. I have moved up 500 numbers and have over 1000 below me. We seem to be the only company taking on more flying while everyone else is struggling to keep what they have.
That being said, I do not know that any of the above mentioned airlines would be a good fit for the OP unless he wants to endure a hellish commute to an east coast base. I don't think Envoy is a terrible choice, I just don't think the movement they are advertising will happen the way they say it will, so go in with both eyes open if that is what the OP chooses.
The quick upgrade has ended at Compass from what I understand, and I don't really know anyone there to ask. SkyWest I've heard is a good airline to work for, but movement is still slow and the OP would be at the back of the big hiring wave. I wouldn't go to Mesa either. Low pay and hiring wave ending there as well.
I think whoever said Republic as an option is delusional. RAH (again, in my opinion) would be a gamble right now at best. It is widely known that they apparently can't afford the new contract's pay scale long term and there have been rumors that mainline isn't willing to renegotiate. I think RAH will go through a restructuring (read: bankruptcy) period to shed its 50 seat flying and to renegotiate. Lots of turmoil there and a relatively stagnant seniority list.
If I lived in California, I'd probably fly for SkyWest. They are a big company and will likely be able to weather the coming storm the next few years will bring. It's kind of a bummer for west coast pilots, not nearly as many opportunities as on the east coast.
11-29-2015, 05:00 PM
#25
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Position: Traffic watch any seat I want 😂
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by Check Complete
Other things to consider:
Even though new hires aren't sitting reserve for very long, at some point you will upgrade and you will sit for years on reserve as a Captain. SkyWest reserve is a unique kind of hell that has no real description. On reserve at SkyWest, you will be treated on a sub human scale. Of all the people that I've run into that left SkyWest for a total different career left because of the way they were treated by SkyWest on reserve. If you come here consider yourself warned.
Training failures, have been mounting and are climbing higher, as a percetage. There has been a total turn over of training department management and there is little room for issues. Many new ground and sim instructors that have zilch experience. Lots of new LCA's again with little experience. Until you have finished your IOE your CP cannot help you, you are at the mercy of some new training department micro manager that is out to make a name for themselves.
If I was in your position, flow would have a lot of weight in my decision.
The upgrade at SkyWest is at least 3 years and things could change over night and come to a grinding halt.
There is no way I could bunk up with another person for 2 months, SkyWest only offers rooms with 2 guys in them, nice way to start your "first class career"!
I'm senior SkyWest, I would go Compass, Envoy, Republic in that order.
Even though new hires aren't sitting reserve for very long, at some point you will upgrade and you will sit for years on reserve as a Captain. SkyWest reserve is a unique kind of hell that has no real description. On reserve at SkyWest, you will be treated on a sub human scale. Of all the people that I've run into that left SkyWest for a total different career left because of the way they were treated by SkyWest on reserve. If you come here consider yourself warned.
Training failures, have been mounting and are climbing higher, as a percetage. There has been a total turn over of training department management and there is little room for issues. Many new ground and sim instructors that have zilch experience. Lots of new LCA's again with little experience. Until you have finished your IOE your CP cannot help you, you are at the mercy of some new training department micro manager that is out to make a name for themselves.
If I was in your position, flow would have a lot of weight in my decision.
The upgrade at SkyWest is at least 3 years and things could change over night and come to a grinding halt.
There is no way I could bunk up with another person for 2 months, SkyWest only offers rooms with 2 guys in them, nice way to start your "first class career"!
I'm senior SkyWest, I would go Compass, Envoy, Republic in that order.
Thank you
11-29-2015, 06:34 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 28
Skywest is the only real option in the regionals.
Envoy will view you as a piece of meat and not as a person. Skywest will treat you with respect.
Flows are designed to keep those who are senior and about to leave in their current position at the regional an extra year or 2. Flows are a way to pay people without it costing any money. Flows have been around for 30 years and usually end before the actual flow occurs. In 1987 there was the Pan Am Express flow that ended when it was sold to TWA. A few guys flowed but they all could have gone to a major at the time anyway.
How long did the eagle guys sit before they flowed?
I would steer clear of any regional besides Skywest. I expect most future contracts to go to Skywest. Delta, United, American, and Alaska all seem to be sending their flying there and very little anywhere else right now.
Envoy will view you as a piece of meat and not as a person. Skywest will treat you with respect.
Flows are designed to keep those who are senior and about to leave in their current position at the regional an extra year or 2. Flows are a way to pay people without it costing any money. Flows have been around for 30 years and usually end before the actual flow occurs. In 1987 there was the Pan Am Express flow that ended when it was sold to TWA. A few guys flowed but they all could have gone to a major at the time anyway.
How long did the eagle guys sit before they flowed?
I would steer clear of any regional besides Skywest. I expect most future contracts to go to Skywest. Delta, United, American, and Alaska all seem to be sending their flying there and very little anywhere else right now.
11-29-2015, 06:44 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,480
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
I think it's a little disingenuous to say that flows are a joke... I would argue with you that it is yet to be seen if flow-up programs that many wholly-owned airlines have in place will work long-term. But at the current metrics, if you don't work for PSA, PDT, or Envoy, you can kiss working for AA goodbye. That leaves UA and Delta. And Delta statistically hires more ex-mil than almost any other.
That being said, I do not know that any of the above mentioned airlines would be a good fit for the OP unless he wants to endure a hellish commute to an east coast base. I don't think Envoy is a terrible choice, I just don't think the movement they are advertising will happen the way they say it will, so go in with both eyes open if that is what the OP chooses.
The quick upgrade has ended at Compass from what I understand, and I don't really know anyone there to ask. SkyWest I've heard is a good airline to work for, but movement is still slow and the OP would be at the back of the big hiring wave. I wouldn't go to Mesa either. Low pay and hiring wave ending there as well.
I think whoever said Republic as an option is delusional. RAH (again, in my opinion) would be a gamble right now at best. It is widely known that they apparently can't afford the new contract's pay scale long term and there have been rumors that mainline isn't willing to renegotiate. I think RAH will go through a restructuring (read: bankruptcy) period to shed its 50 seat flying and to renegotiate. Lots of turmoil there and a relatively stagnant seniority list.
If I lived in California, I'd probably fly for SkyWest. They are a big company and will likely be able to weather the coming storm the next few years will bring. It's kind of a bummer for west coast pilots, not nearly as many opportunities as on the east coast.
That being said, I do not know that any of the above mentioned airlines would be a good fit for the OP unless he wants to endure a hellish commute to an east coast base. I don't think Envoy is a terrible choice, I just don't think the movement they are advertising will happen the way they say it will, so go in with both eyes open if that is what the OP chooses.
The quick upgrade has ended at Compass from what I understand, and I don't really know anyone there to ask. SkyWest I've heard is a good airline to work for, but movement is still slow and the OP would be at the back of the big hiring wave. I wouldn't go to Mesa either. Low pay and hiring wave ending there as well.
I think whoever said Republic as an option is delusional. RAH (again, in my opinion) would be a gamble right now at best. It is widely known that they apparently can't afford the new contract's pay scale long term and there have been rumors that mainline isn't willing to renegotiate. I think RAH will go through a restructuring (read: bankruptcy) period to shed its 50 seat flying and to renegotiate. Lots of turmoil there and a relatively stagnant seniority list.
If I lived in California, I'd probably fly for SkyWest. They are a big company and will likely be able to weather the coming storm the next few years will bring. It's kind of a bummer for west coast pilots, not nearly as many opportunities as on the east coast.
11-29-2015, 06:45 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,480
Originally Posted by Motoxer517
That's the kind of answer I'm looking for, someone from the inside that is aware of what it is to be a pilot at those companies
Thank you
Thank you
11-29-2015, 06:48 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Position: Traffic watch any seat I want 😂
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by word302
I wouldn't call that an accurate description from the majority at Skywest.
11-29-2015, 06:50 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 613
Problem is that you won't know if you made the right choice until 5 years after you make it. With the regional game, since you don't own the flying it can get shifted at anytime. Compass is nice since all their west coast flying is junior, but that could get taken away or shifted back east and then you would be commuting.
I have never worked for anyone but SW, but to say they treat you with respect seems a little off to me. Spend any amount of time on reserve and you will never feel like you are treated with one ounce of respect. I think back in the day things were different, but now you are just a number and there is no respect between pilots and crew scheduling. Again, I think all regionals are the same but management here does not respect pilots.
That being said, I wouldn't recommend Republic to anyone. BB is an idiot and banking everything on the 1,500 hour rule will get repealed or changed. I don't see that happening and I don't see them doing anything to make that place worth going to. SW is getting a lot of flying and I know a ton of CA's that have offers or class dates. I see tons of movement here in the future.
I have never worked for anyone but SW, but to say they treat you with respect seems a little off to me. Spend any amount of time on reserve and you will never feel like you are treated with one ounce of respect. I think back in the day things were different, but now you are just a number and there is no respect between pilots and crew scheduling. Again, I think all regionals are the same but management here does not respect pilots.
That being said, I wouldn't recommend Republic to anyone. BB is an idiot and banking everything on the 1,500 hour rule will get repealed or changed. I don't see that happening and I don't see them doing anything to make that place worth going to. SW is getting a lot of flying and I know a ton of CA's that have offers or class dates. I see tons of movement here in the future.
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