UAL vs CAL Interns
04-23-2014, 09:35 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by Probe
Scott;
Nope. Lual, 95 hire. Spent first 6 years flying with scabs and 570, and me or the bunkie was hired post 1990. Most post 1990 hires were good guys/gals.
United was my 17th job. Hired when I was 32. My guess is UAL was your first, and now only, job. Hired at 22. Sorry, being an intern doesn't count. You weren't paid.
In 1995, if me and you did resumes under the same criteria, your work experience would be 1 inch long on a normal piece of paper. Mine would be 2.5 pages. Mine was simllar to all my classmates of Dec, 1995. We came from diverse backgrounds. But all of us were the same, under the sun.
What none of us were, back in Dec of 1995, were 22 year olds starting their first real job, ever.
LCAL?, A few days ago I did my last line check. My LCAL check airman, a couple of years younger than me, was telling me about his aviation experience (I asked). After he told me, I said, you know what, the guys that really had it bad, flew checks in the middle of the night, single pilot, IFR. He said, "OH Yeah, I did that for three years as well."
I stand by my opinion. 500 hour interns, or 3000 hours that daddy paid for, don't belong in front of the Q in front of 8000 hour pilots with 12 years of professional experience. And it shows when you fly with them.
Outstanding Airmanship Award? Congrats. I am sure you did a great job. So did all of us, numerous times, throughout all of our professional careers. I am not badmouthing what you did, but I would never, ever, brag about the award. Why?
Because all of us, professional aviators, have saved the day a few times in our careers. For the most part, the only ones that know about it are in front of the locked cockpit door. It is our job, and why we make the big bucks. After the flight, we shook hands, and went home.
I stand by what I said about interns, 100%.
Nope. Lual, 95 hire. Spent first 6 years flying with scabs and 570, and me or the bunkie was hired post 1990. Most post 1990 hires were good guys/gals.
United was my 17th job. Hired when I was 32. My guess is UAL was your first, and now only, job. Hired at 22. Sorry, being an intern doesn't count. You weren't paid.
In 1995, if me and you did resumes under the same criteria, your work experience would be 1 inch long on a normal piece of paper. Mine would be 2.5 pages. Mine was simllar to all my classmates of Dec, 1995. We came from diverse backgrounds. But all of us were the same, under the sun.
What none of us were, back in Dec of 1995, were 22 year olds starting their first real job, ever.
LCAL?, A few days ago I did my last line check. My LCAL check airman, a couple of years younger than me, was telling me about his aviation experience (I asked). After he told me, I said, you know what, the guys that really had it bad, flew checks in the middle of the night, single pilot, IFR. He said, "OH Yeah, I did that for three years as well."
I stand by my opinion. 500 hour interns, or 3000 hours that daddy paid for, don't belong in front of the Q in front of 8000 hour pilots with 12 years of professional experience. And it shows when you fly with them.
Outstanding Airmanship Award? Congrats. I am sure you did a great job. So did all of us, numerous times, throughout all of our professional careers. I am not badmouthing what you did, but I would never, ever, brag about the award. Why?
Because all of us, professional aviators, have saved the day a few times in our careers. For the most part, the only ones that know about it are in front of the locked cockpit door. It is our job, and why we make the big bucks. After the flight, we shook hands, and went home.
I stand by what I said about interns, 100%.
BTW, the job you mentioned as being really bad (checks) is what I did to pay for my college. Well played. You're a real piece of work.
Scott
04-23-2014, 09:55 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Probe:
Basically I believe you are out of line on most of what you have written.
The hiring process at airlines (at least UAL) is a matter of timing, qualifications and a lot of luck. Each generation of pilot hiring had its qualifications and block of pilots, the "Tracy Aces," "Vietnam Copter pilots," the "no time Clinton Aviation grads," the "Canadians," the "younger than 30 group," the "570", the "530 somethings, "the "Fleet Quals," the high time "military heavy," the "Interns," the "1500 hour single seat fighter jocks," the "high-time civilian 135," the "family connection program" and others, just to name some.
Quite frankly your prejudiced and ideas about what is a "norm" time to be hired just doesn't hold water when the hiring facts are examined. I'm sorry you aren't a senior wide body pilot when you seem to feel you should be, but I think by now you'd gotten over it.
One thing I do know, except for a few, the pilots I have flown with since I was introduced to the back seat at UAL are outstanding airmen and women.
No matter what you may think this job, in either seat, is a whole lot better than sitting in a cubicle with a bizarre boss looking over your shoulder.
Basically I believe you are out of line on most of what you have written.
The hiring process at airlines (at least UAL) is a matter of timing, qualifications and a lot of luck. Each generation of pilot hiring had its qualifications and block of pilots, the "Tracy Aces," "Vietnam Copter pilots," the "no time Clinton Aviation grads," the "Canadians," the "younger than 30 group," the "570", the "530 somethings, "the "Fleet Quals," the high time "military heavy," the "Interns," the "1500 hour single seat fighter jocks," the "high-time civilian 135," the "family connection program" and others, just to name some.
Quite frankly your prejudiced and ideas about what is a "norm" time to be hired just doesn't hold water when the hiring facts are examined. I'm sorry you aren't a senior wide body pilot when you seem to feel you should be, but I think by now you'd gotten over it.
One thing I do know, except for a few, the pilots I have flown with since I was introduced to the back seat at UAL are outstanding airmen and women.
No matter what you may think this job, in either seat, is a whole lot better than sitting in a cubicle with a bizarre boss looking over your shoulder.
04-23-2014, 10:31 AM
#63
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by Probe
Scott;
Nope. Lual, 95 hire. Spent first 6 years flying with scabs and 570, and me or the bunkie was hired post 1990. Most post 1990 hires were good guys/gals.
United was my 17th job. Hired when I was 32. My guess is UAL was your first, and now only, job. Hired at 22. Sorry, being an intern doesn't count. You weren't paid.
In 1995, if me and you did resumes under the same criteria, your work experience would be 1 inch long on a normal piece of paper. Mine would be 2.5 pages. Mine was simllar to all my classmates of Dec, 1995. We came from diverse backgrounds. But all of us were the same, under the sun.
What none of us were, back in Dec of 1995, were 22 year olds starting their first real job, ever.
LCAL?, A few days ago I did my last line check. My LCAL check airman, a couple of years younger than me, was telling me about his aviation experience (I asked). After he told me, I said, you know what, the guys that really had it bad, flew checks in the middle of the night, single pilot, IFR. He said, "OH Yeah, I did that for three years as well."
I stand by my opinion. 500 hour interns, or 3000 hours that daddy paid for, don't belong in front of the Q in front of 8000 hour pilots with 12 years of professional experience. And it shows when you fly with them.
Outstanding Airmanship Award? Congrats. I am sure you did a great job. So did all of us, numerous times, throughout all of our professional careers. I am not badmouthing what you did, but I would never, ever, brag about the award. Why?
Because all of us, professional aviators, have saved the day a few times in our careers. For the most part, the only ones that know about it are in front of the locked cockpit door. It is our job, and why we make the big bucks. After the flight, we shook hands, and went home.
I stand by what I said about interns, 100%.
Nope. Lual, 95 hire. Spent first 6 years flying with scabs and 570, and me or the bunkie was hired post 1990. Most post 1990 hires were good guys/gals.
United was my 17th job. Hired when I was 32. My guess is UAL was your first, and now only, job. Hired at 22. Sorry, being an intern doesn't count. You weren't paid.
In 1995, if me and you did resumes under the same criteria, your work experience would be 1 inch long on a normal piece of paper. Mine would be 2.5 pages. Mine was simllar to all my classmates of Dec, 1995. We came from diverse backgrounds. But all of us were the same, under the sun.
What none of us were, back in Dec of 1995, were 22 year olds starting their first real job, ever.
LCAL?, A few days ago I did my last line check. My LCAL check airman, a couple of years younger than me, was telling me about his aviation experience (I asked). After he told me, I said, you know what, the guys that really had it bad, flew checks in the middle of the night, single pilot, IFR. He said, "OH Yeah, I did that for three years as well."
I stand by my opinion. 500 hour interns, or 3000 hours that daddy paid for, don't belong in front of the Q in front of 8000 hour pilots with 12 years of professional experience. And it shows when you fly with them.
Outstanding Airmanship Award? Congrats. I am sure you did a great job. So did all of us, numerous times, throughout all of our professional careers. I am not badmouthing what you did, but I would never, ever, brag about the award. Why?
Because all of us, professional aviators, have saved the day a few times in our careers. For the most part, the only ones that know about it are in front of the locked cockpit door. It is our job, and why we make the big bucks. After the flight, we shook hands, and went home.
I stand by what I said about interns, 100%.
Don't particularly care about how you feel about interns etc., but every LUAL pilot owes Scott a debt of gratitude. You accuse him of tooting his own horn, but he didn't tell you what he did. So I will. He saved an 737 full of people from colliding with a 747 in ORD through some outstanding airmanship. An fatal accident was imminent. Had it occurred, everyone would have surely died, and due to LUAL's financial stature at the time, we would almost certainly have gone out of business. See Pan Am.
I am curious.... Do you have kids? If your child wanted to be a pilot for United, and had the grades to apply for what is an extremely competitive program, would you tell them NOT to go for the UAL internship because you didn't think it was fair for them to get a leg up? I've flown with good and bad interns. I've also flown with some good and bad fighter pilots. I've flown with good and bad union officers. Most of it is just luck and timing anyway, but it doesn't hurt to try to make your own luck where you can. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but it doesn't necessarily mean you're right.
04-23-2014, 10:52 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
04-23-2014, 11:13 AM
#65
Not retiring avatar
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: 777 CAP
Posts: 768
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Probe:
Basically I believe you are out of line on most of what you have written.
The hiring process at airlines (at least UAL) is a matter of timing, qualifications and a lot of luck. Each generation of pilot hiring had its qualifications and block of pilots, the "Tracy Aces," "Vietnam Copter pilots," the "no time Clinton Aviation grads," the "Canadians," the "younger than 30 group," the "570", the "530 somethings, "the "Fleet Quals," the high time "military heavy," the "Interns," the "1500 hour single seat fighter jocks," the "high-time civilian 135," the "family connection program" and others, just to name some.
Quite frankly your prejudiced and ideas about what is a "norm" time to be hired just doesn't hold water when the hiring facts are examined. I'm sorry you aren't a senior wide body pilot when you seem to feel you should be, but I think by now you'd gotten over it.
One thing I do know, except for a few, the pilots I have flown with since I was introduced to the back seat at UAL are outstanding airmen and women.
No matter what you may think this job, in either seat, is a whole lot better than sitting in a cubicle with a bizarre boss looking over your shoulder.
Basically I believe you are out of line on most of what you have written.
The hiring process at airlines (at least UAL) is a matter of timing, qualifications and a lot of luck. Each generation of pilot hiring had its qualifications and block of pilots, the "Tracy Aces," "Vietnam Copter pilots," the "no time Clinton Aviation grads," the "Canadians," the "younger than 30 group," the "570", the "530 somethings, "the "Fleet Quals," the high time "military heavy," the "Interns," the "1500 hour single seat fighter jocks," the "high-time civilian 135," the "family connection program" and others, just to name some.
Quite frankly your prejudiced and ideas about what is a "norm" time to be hired just doesn't hold water when the hiring facts are examined. I'm sorry you aren't a senior wide body pilot when you seem to feel you should be, but I think by now you'd gotten over it.
One thing I do know, except for a few, the pilots I have flown with since I was introduced to the back seat at UAL are outstanding airmen and women.
No matter what you may think this job, in either seat, is a whole lot better than sitting in a cubicle with a bizarre boss looking over your shoulder.
Since he feels this way about interns, how much more anger he must feel against minority hires. But, it wouldn't be PC to rail against them. Probably best just to let him stew in it, no one will change his mind.
How funny is this type of post?:
[Ignorant commentary]
I stand by my opinion 100%!
signed,
[Anonymous screen name]
04-26-2014, 04:15 AM
#66
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Yes, they speak for themselves.
A small group of posters, probably all hired at a very young and inexperienced age, have attacked me personally for my opinion. My opinion is that those hired with minimal qualifications and experience, should have never been hired in the first place, and are, as a rule, a pain in the @ss to fly with.
I thank you all. You have done something in a very short time that would have taken me much more time, and I would have lost credibility. You have proven my point, better than I ever could.
Scott, I am sure you did a great job "that day". But by bragging about it, you belittle the rest of us, who have done similar things, or more, without ever being given an award. More, you are the only, the one, that brought up his award, on any venue I can think of.
How do I know I am right? Staller/Hopesales/Carolsdanger is completely in opposition to what I say. Probably a 570 if I remember right. Hired at 22?
Good night, and good by.
A small group of posters, probably all hired at a very young and inexperienced age, have attacked me personally for my opinion. My opinion is that those hired with minimal qualifications and experience, should have never been hired in the first place, and are, as a rule, a pain in the @ss to fly with.
I thank you all. You have done something in a very short time that would have taken me much more time, and I would have lost credibility. You have proven my point, better than I ever could.
Scott, I am sure you did a great job "that day". But by bragging about it, you belittle the rest of us, who have done similar things, or more, without ever being given an award. More, you are the only, the one, that brought up his award, on any venue I can think of.
How do I know I am right? Staller/Hopesales/Carolsdanger is completely in opposition to what I say. Probably a 570 if I remember right. Hired at 22?
Good night, and good by.
04-26-2014, 06:54 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by hopeSales
Don't know what your background really is but you need to apologize and let this go. Your ego is overriding any logical arguments. You're losing any credibility you may have had on this forum with your continued defending a poor argument to bash a segment of the United pilot population.
I hope you exercise a little more restraint in the cockpit. I can guarantee you that every time you bad mouth / bash a peer to another peer you've lost their respect.
Not trying to beat a dead horse but your profile says "Guppy Driver" - You say you were a December 1995 hire at LUAL. And just recently had a line check by a LCAL check airman. Don't know the actual dates but when did LUAL(none furloughed) guys start flying with LCAL guys?
I hope you exercise a little more restraint in the cockpit. I can guarantee you that every time you bad mouth / bash a peer to another peer you've lost their respect.
Not trying to beat a dead horse but your profile says "Guppy Driver" - You say you were a December 1995 hire at LUAL. And just recently had a line check by a LCAL check airman. Don't know the actual dates but when did LUAL(none furloughed) guys start flying with LCAL guys?
You may want to take your own advice!!!
04-26-2014, 07:46 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by Probe
Scott, I am sure you did a great job "that day". But by bragging about it, you belittle the rest of us, who have done similar things, or more, without ever being given an award. More, you are the only, the one, that brought up his award, on any venue I can think of.
Scott
04-26-2014, 12:59 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Probe:
"You have proven my point, better than I ever could."
I think the only point proven here is you're a clueless, self centered, egotistic, and classic example of what not to be as a professional pilot.
Oh BTW you proved my point that the AH in the left seat didn't become that way by just moving sideways to the left.
"You have proven my point, better than I ever could."
I think the only point proven here is you're a clueless, self centered, egotistic, and classic example of what not to be as a professional pilot.
Oh BTW you proved my point that the AH in the left seat didn't become that way by just moving sideways to the left.
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