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Old 11-23-2017, 11:19 PM   #1
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Default Pay, or scope?

I'd like to throw this out to the rank-and-file pilots, since I don't know that anyone has asked the question:

Imagine for a moment that the company were willing to amend the CBA right now, and you could get one wish. The choices are:

o A pay scale that equals the average of the Big Four, plus 1%

Or

o An industry-standard scope clause, codified in the CBA


Which would you choose, and why?

(full disclosure; to my knowledge, the company is NOT considering this; I'm simply curious to know the general consensus, that's all)
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:13 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EA CO AS View Post
I'd like to throw this out to the rank-and-file pilots, since I don't know that anyone has asked the question:

Imagine for a moment that the company were willing to amend the CBA right now, and you could get one wish. The choices are:

o A pay scale that equals the average of the Big Four, plus 1%

Or

o An industry-standard scope clause, codified in the CBA


Which would you choose, and why?

(full disclosure; to my knowledge, the company is NOT considering this; I'm simply curious to know the general consensus, that's all)
Both, because that's what's reasonable.

Delta has good pay and they have scope.
American has good pay and has scope.
United has good pay and has scope.
Southwest has good pay and has ULTIMATE scope. Zero outsourcing allowed.
Spirit has crap pay but is in negotiations for higher pay and does zero outsourcing.
Frontier has crap pay but is in negotiations and does zero outsourcing.
Allegiant has low pay but zero outsourcing.
Hawaiian has mediocre pay but no outsourcing.
JetBlue has below average pay, is in negotiations, and does no outsourcing.

When compared to those with similar pay to ours, our outsourcing is out of control.

When compared to those with outsourcing, our pay is pathetic.


Acceptable solutions are as follows:

1) Pay parity with DAL/UAL/AMR, and scope that limits seats to 76, weight to 86k, and airframes to a percentage comparable to DAL/UAL/AMR.
2) Pay parity with Southwest which would be a smaller increase, and the end of outsourcing completely. Every E175/Q400 flown by Alaska Airlines pilots.


Those options are reasonable as per industry standards. Anything less needs to be rectified. The excuse of "Oh, we're only 5th in revenue, we can't pay like the big companies" is complete garbage. We're 5th in revenue, but 6th in pilot group size. So if you're paying fewer pilots than your revenue position, you have more revenue per pilot than anyone else.

Last edited by pete2800; 11-24-2017 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete2800 View Post
Both, because that's what's reasonable.

Delta has good pay and they have scope.
American has good pay and has scope.
United has good pay and has scope.
Southwest has good pay and has ULTIMATE scope. Zero outsourcing allowed.
Spirit has crap pay but is in negotiations for higher pay and does zero outsourcing.
Frontier has crap pay but is in negotiations and does zero outsourcing.
Allegiant has low pay but zero outsourcing.
Hawaiian has mediocre pay but no outsourcing.
JetBlue has below average pay, is in negotiations, and does no outsourcing.

When compared to those with similar pay to ours, our outsourcing is out of control.

When compared to those with outsourcing, our pay is pathetic.


Acceptable solutions are as follows:

1) Pay parity with DAL/UAL/AMR, and scope that limits seats to 76, weight to 86k, and airframes to a percentage comparable to DAL/UAL/AMR.
2) Pay parity with Southwest which would be a smaller increase, and the end of outsourcing completely. Every E175/Q400 flown by Alaska Airlines pilots.


Those options are reasonable as per industry standards. Anything less needs to be rectified. The excuse of "Oh, we're only 5th in revenue, we can't pay like the big companies" is complete garbage. We're 5th in revenue, but 6th in pilot group size. So if you're paying fewer pilots that your revenue position, you have more revenue per pilot than anyone else.
While I do not condone engaging with trolls, you sir may drop the mike! Dilly Dilly!
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:55 AM   #4
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While I do not condone engaging with trolls, you sir may drop the mike! Dilly Dilly!
Dilly dilly!






But seriously, the premise of this question is flawed.

"You have two problems. Which would you like to fix?"

"Uh, both?"
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:04 AM   #5
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This is like an airliners .net thread.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:18 AM   #6
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Ladies and gentlemen, I highly encourage you to not engage EA CO AS since he's most likely a troll. If he/it isn't, I'm going to venture to guess that it's a company mole attempting to negotiate directly with pilots. We all realize how much the company loves metrics and data collection.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:03 AM   #7
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I also suggest putting the management troll on your ignore list. Makes for a peaceful life.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:50 PM   #8
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I don’t know much about Alaska, fly out of the northeast. Does Alaska really have no scope at all?
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:13 PM   #9
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He's one of those airliners.net armchair experts. Just ignore him and he will go back to that dork site.
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanzer View Post
I don’t know much about Alaska, fly out of the northeast. Does Alaska really have no scope at all?

Better start reading then.
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