Hmm, I've experienced both ALPA and SWAPA. I'd pick SWAPA if given the choice.

Only if you are on the SWAPA side of a merger!

Talking about a merger.

And that may be true. I’ve never been through a merger.

I was with Air Tran and I’ve never been through a merger either. But, I have been through an acquisition. I’m thinking mergers might be better.

We didn’t have 12 year FOs. 6 year FOs were very senior.

The SLI was a staple for roughly 60% of our FOs, FYI.

As for a huge pay raise.....hmmmm. Funny, it was a little different for me. I lost almost 4 years DOH and 32% relative which earned me a nice 3 year downgrade after being a not so junior B737 cptn for the previous 7 years. That “huge pay raise” that I got showed up as 20-25% less in my take home pay.

So who’s getting flagged for BS now?

Let’s just call a spade a spade here. The SWA/AT deal was a gun held to the AT pilot group’s head. NO ONE on our side thought it was a fair or good deal and yet well over 80% voted to accept it. Think about that. What does that tell you?

Make no mistake that the same threats will be hurled towards the Alaska pilot group (or Spirit or whoever). You’re dealing with a pilot group and union that actually proposed putting ALL of our pilots on probation once they transitioned over to the SWA side. Yes, even our most senior cptns. Yes, you read that right.

So just keep in mind the pompous mentality & attitude that we’re talking about here. Be careful what you wish for.

Merger probably would be better than acquisition. I’ve never been through either... just a shutdown. I think my point about ALPA is that ALPA exists to serve one or two airlines and will not always be there standing up for the other groups when things get rough.

Let it go whack. I wasn’t here when that all went down, but the amount of acrimony that still exists is because guys like you just can’t move on. At best it was a tie, at worst some AirTran guys got a little bit hosed. The worst part in my opinion is that lives got uprooted when a lot of pilots were forced to relocate or commute to atl. It is what it is, though, and considering the turbulence of this business, the fact that all the pilots kept their jobs when the vast majority of their aircraft went to a competitor says something.
We are all one group now and the vast majority of FAT pilots that I fly with are great guys who get what happened. There are just a few, though, including one individual that I had to endure for 3 days of training, that can’t seem to accept that they work for a different company now and the sooner they integrate, the better their lives will be. I am a firm believer in the 520 mentality. I don’t care where the money comes from or how it magically appears in my account.

SWA buyout?
 

Why was AT for sale?

All public companies are for sale unless the owner retains > 50% equity.

So the executives could make millions extra.

Why was TWA for sale? It’s stock price was low enough that Carl Icahn, the corporate raider, could buy it and make money off its most valuable assets.

SWA buyout?
 

Why was TWAs stock price so low? Was ATs stock price low too?

Wiki has a good summary. . .

“As the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 led to a wave of airline failures, start-ups, and takeovers in the United States, TWA was spun off from its holding company in 1984. Carl Icahn acquired control of TWA and took the company private in a leveraged buyout in 1988.”

The entire industry had low stock prices due to competitors failing and going backrupt. It did not lend confidence in the stock market for ANY airline. Hence low stock price. (I.e. less than liquidation value.)

Certainly some other factors lead Icahn selecting TWA, probably not the least of which was the strongest U.S. airline presence at Heathrow. Those gates slots were almost like gold and easily sold. Gate slots at Heathrow still are valuable.

At the risk of beating a dead horse........

No offense, but what kind of deal do you think you'd have gotten had GK been honest about the fate of the 717s prior to the vote?

When we voted on the SLI, everyone on both sides thought that you guys were bringing a proportional number of seats for all of the pilots, which certainly gave you guys some leverage.

Imagine the outcome had we all known that 2/3s of those seats would evaporate by the time you guys migrated over.

I suspect that several high up SWAPA types knew about the 717's departure at the time we voted, and agreed not to disclose it, in the name of getting the thing passed with as little cost/difficulty to the company as possible.

IMHO, it would have been far worse for you guys had SWAPA not had such a cozy relationship with GK, and ignored the leverage of those seats going away, potentially putting 2/3s of your pilots on the street.

Yeah, we've got some real "hired..... not acquired" winners around here.

You think this DOJ gives a **** about monopolies? They allowed net neutrality to die, and we will all pay an assload for that mess.

Yes I do. Seems like you’re mixing apples and potatoes.

Net neutrality is concept with no precedent, and no fundamental legal basis.

Anti-trust policy and regulation are clear, and well-established.

Tell that to ATT/Time Warner who is ^*(%& about justice dept pooing in their merger deal.

Net Neutrality is not a "merger" it's a utilitarian concept set up to "help" the big companies actually against the little guy.

If large consumers of the internet bandwidth, ie NETFLIX, AMAZON, etc don't pay more (because of net neutrality), then the costs for everyone, ie the little guy startup, go up which stifles innovation.

While I’m not interested in going through another merger anytime soon, a WN/AS merger on paper makes a whole lot of sense. The combined Airline would have scale and dominance along the West Coast, Hawaii and Alaska to be a formidable competitor to the Big 3 and set the combined Airline up for larger equipment to build a long haul Transpacific operation out of SEA. Given the combined fleet would most likely be all Boeing again by the time the two Airlines are combined, the integration and cost synergies should be realized in less than half the time it took WN to integrate FL. That alone makes the merger even more compelling from WN’s perspective. Time will tell, but it wouldn’t shock me if this happens in the next 12-24 months.

Only on toilet paper.

The **** that comes with a merger isn't worth it. The AS and Virgin pilots still have to merge. Not going to be a happy group when it's done--even if the SLI is done well. Both sides have a very different idea of "fair". Even the CEO feels the pain of a merger after a while.

See, that’s where you’re wrong. The C suite has absolutely no regard for how you or I feel about the **** that comes with a merger. If you were here for the FL acquisition, you know good and well that GK didn’t give a rip what either pilot group thought of the deal then, and they won’t care this time either. I also didn’t say I’m for another merger, just that I can see from a management perspective why they would want another one that’s all.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for the person IMPOSING the pain? Come on...

That's from ****ing all the competition...:cool:

Yeah I can't imagine what I'd do with all that extra money, time off, being able to credit 200+hours a month every month and fun overnights. That sounds like the worst...:rolleyes:

Have you even talked to their guys? Even at our new rates their midrange FO's make more than our captains. That's without breaking a sweat. I have friends there and I've seen their W2's. It's night and day.

And line bidding WITH CONFLICTS?! As in...the **only reason** to even have line bidding?? Imagine that...

Exactly, I’ve found the same to be true. Plus they have the ability to trade trips around without having to cold call people, crazy!

What is trading trips?... I am unfamiliar with this concept.

Rumors?
 

Any new rumors floating around?? I’ve heard from multiple pilots that Southwest has been looking into Alaska... And supposedly American is looking at the Virgin busses. Just seems like an interesting time right now. Especially with the hault on Airbus classes in March?

Day trade much?

Nope. Just interested. There’s more going on than what’s being said...

Come on Southwest. Do it. I dare you. You ain't scared, is ya?

Only if you agree to get Morrised... ;)

Attachment 3545

Flew with a guy here at SWA about a year ago that was pretty well connected down in Dallas with the execs. He claimed to have been operating a flight into CLT and as the pax were deplaning, he noticed one of his exec friends. When he asked him why he was going to CLT, the guy’s response was, “Well, I can’t tell you much but it’s to talk to AMR about exchanging OUR Airbuses for their 737s”.

This was about a year ago so maybe there has been something in the works for a while. Time will tell....

Not sure where you got your info but they were not "stapled". I was at SWA 5 years before the acquisition and I have many, many AT guys ahead of me now. Those guys got a great deal, although some will never admit it. 40% more pay - and that was before the current contract, better rules, vacation, retirement etc. Check your facts next time.

Over half of our FOs got stapled and all of our Cptns got downgraded. In my case that lead to a 20-25% cut in takehome pay. “Great deal”, huh? GMAFB

I think it’s you that needs to check your facts, pal.

Sorry, you guys signed a pay increase after the acquisition was announced. Never would have happened without it. Your CEO said as much- he even said the airline wouldn't have survived. So if you want to compare apples to apples, your captain rates were very close to our top FO rates. So no, not a pay cut. This is not to mention the new contract. You said basically all were stapled, was that accurate ? Ask the SW guys who were displaced out of MCO if you were all "basically" stapled.
You do remember the far better deal that you guys rejected - right ?

I get tired of the Air Tran wine. You guys are FAR better off now. So just stop.

Wow. Just wow...... I’m so not even going to get into it with you. You’re truly out to lunch.

If I have to take that in exchange for 100% scope, no redeyes, and increased pay/benefits, I'll sign that deal tomorrow.