Or, Alaska can just wait for Sun Country to go Tango Uniform after the next downturn in the economy and pick up what few assets they have at yard sale prices without having to deal the hassles of a merger.


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Or, Alaska can capitalize on Sun Country’s goodwill in the MSP community to introduce their product to the O&D market, while establishing themselves as more than just a PNW brand.

VA might have been the merger AS should have waited out. What did it gain the AS product/brand?

It would also allow management to send us back to arbitration for a new contract instead of bargaining for contract 2020.

Did you go to the same business school as B&B? They would probably enjoy talking to you about...culture.

Alaska has decided that they are big enough. growth of ASM only and that at 1-2% over the next 18 to 24 months. No airframe growth planned. Deliverys yes but returns as well. No need to merge or be merged. Apparently we will fly to new destinations but end service at others. Standard procedure in my 19 plus years...

Yep.... straight from the Q3 earnings report. Fly pretty much where we currently fly, increase profits from credit card sales, bag fees, and cutting expenses.

I didn't feel like starting a thread but just thought you guys should know our newest E175 (637QX) has an increased MTOW of 89K, and Alaska is keeping it that way...All the rest were at 86.

Don't worry, our scope clause will stop that...... oh wait

Who’s scope clause? AS’ or the airtight stuff you guys brought over with yoouuu... oh wait....

I’m sure they would have been like JetBlue and gotten in their first cba. How many CBAs has Alaska negotiated without getting scope?

Scope or lack thereof is probably one of the greatest threats to the Alaska pilot group. No one benefits by turning the issue into a VX/AS food fight. In solidarity.

Well said!

Amen brother.

Sun country could bridge AS with JB. In 2030 we’ll be flying for USA airlines.

Keep our eyes on the prize. In solidarity.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.... I’m well aware of the importance of not only scope but many sections of our contract that need improvements. My point is this, if you hold both the current AS scope clause and the former VX scope clause in each hand, what have you got? Exactly nothing. Some ex VX have turned the lack of scope into an AS only issue, never acknowledging that they themselves did not have any and brought none with them. Saying “we surly were gonna vote some in”. The division isn’t in my remembering that neither group is able to stack their contract against the other, it’s in the finger pointing done by some, blaming only AS pilots for the lack of scope. I can just as easily assume that with all the hiring done between 2012 and 2017, we at AS were, “surly gonna vote some in”. In the interest of unity, yes, let’s all vote in some scope protections.

What percentage of VX's flying was done by either a wholly owned regional or a FFD contract with SkyWest? 0%. And it's MUCH easier to get scope BEFORE you give it away.

Since AS never fought for scope before, the JCBA arbitration panel decided that we didn't really need it, and now our single collective pilot group has to put the toothpaste BACK into the tube. I don't know what percentage of Alaska's flying is done by Horizon/SkyWest, but it's definitely become enough that Alaska's business model has grown to depend on it. Thanks to the people that actually had many opportunities to slow that down (over the last 85 years), and chose not to, now we ALL have to fight a MUCH harder fight.

What percentage of AS flying was done by RJ's in it's first 10 years of existence? Or even its first 20, 30, 40 or 50 years? This thing didn't rear it's ugly head until the the ever coveted "big 3" gave it away in the early to mid '90's. It wasn't an issue at AS until really the last 15 years, so claiming the AS pilots didn't do anything for 85 years is just over inflating the issue to sound dramatic. Whether or not VX would have voted in scope is as irrelevant as whether or not AS would have voted in scope in '18. Facts are, neither group had it so it's a combined effort now to gain something neither group had. Pointing fingers at one group only serves the individuals ego and stokes their sense of self superiority.

It's REALLY hard to put that toothpaste back in, since jets are bought and contracts let. I can't even begin to imagine what a pilot group would have to give up to get management to go there.

Freezing status quo would probably be achievable. And honestly *some * regional feed is probably good for business and hence pilots.

But better hurry up on that, before status quo includes 100-seaters :eek:

Jet America

Some of you guys crack me up. You think it's as easy as "voting in scope"?

Scope has to be negotiated. Considering how Angle Lake has traditionally viewed Scope, what are YOU willing to give up to get it? Say what you will, but they know exactly what scope is worth.

Lower pay rates and worse reserve rules. That’s what scope is worth to them.

About 40%.

I'm willing to give up however many days of work it takes while walking a picket line to get scope. Question is, is this a pilot group that is willing to take it that far?

In 20 years when we get released to strike I'm in!

Until then I suppose you will continue to hang out at
the Tides Tavern and pretend that your job is just like your
“buddies” jobs at the major airlines. You know the ones where
they actually negotiate contracts not enable management....

Hey, two of us is a start!

I hope you brought 700 with you...That would be a start

Agreed!!!!

I don't know how you got that impression but nobody's pretending, I hate this place. I spent time at two different $hitty regionals before Alaska (my third regional) and they BOTH had stronger scheduling language than the hot garbage contract at this place. I said I'd be there in 20 years to strike... That's only if fate dooms me to actually have to spend my future waiting on this God forsaken dump to turn from a job into a career. I've been here coming up on two years and am doing everything I possibly can to leave because I have absolutely no desire to be around to find out how this story ends. So settle down, they won't be getting any favors out of me in the meantime.

My point is that I hear an AWFUL lot of people who are "building a strike fund" and are "ready to walk," etc, etc without realizing how getting released to strike takes almost a literal act of congress. And if anyone thinks a bunch of pilots making more than 95%+ of other Americans are going to get any sympathy from the public to help catalyze that process, they need to wake up from their self-absorbed fantasies and think again.

The clarification of your position is much appreciated. Wish you well with your efforts to leave behind the “nickle & dime” regional mentality and find a career at a major airline.

I just want to be bought/acquire/merge with any airline with a base ‘this side of the Mississippi :D

spot on
 

You are correct sir. A strike just isn't going to happen. We have to get B&B's attention through other means.

Even if we were to get released to strike, (years and years and years from now), all it would take is one phone call from a native councilmen from OME, OTZ, BRW or BET complaining that the days rations of soda pop didn't make it in - and you can consider the strike to be over. The local native politics leaning on the governor, senators and congressman of Alaska is all it would take to shut a strike down in no time at all. I doubt a strike would even be allowed to start as these politicians are probably smart enough to make the phone calls before we are even officially "released" to strike.
So rather than waste our time on things that won't help, I hope that we can focus on what we can do. The only thing that B&B will pay attention to is when jets stop moving. They buried their heads in the sand and denied that there was a problem last summer at QX. They ignored it until it imploded and shut itself down. That is what has to happen here to get them to pay attention. It must fail, then they will wake up and try to fix it. As long as we keep making them money, they will keep ignoring us. When the jets stop moving, they will suddenly be very attentive.

Extensions, working on a day off, working on vacation, selling back vacation, picking up premium, for that matter - picking up any time at all, VSA, sick leave make up, working when your back is a little stiff or your nose is a little stuffy and you are not 100%. These are the easy things that would make a huge impact and all completely within our individual control.

Couldn't have said it any better. Until this pilot group wakes up and "gets it", nothing is going to happen. There is so much apathy on the property. At least 50% of the pilot group is not engaged... just look at the LEC voting turnout. These same disengaged pilots are the same ones who whine about "the union" not doing anything.

While I understand your sentiment, if I stayed home every time I had a stiff back, I’d have to fly drones from my bedroom. Plus, with the constraints of our scheduling system and almost no ability to trade, SLMU is a great tool if used properly. For those of us with families and bills, if we have to call out sick for all of our trips, burning all of our sick bank and can’t use SLMU, how do you suggest we operate without “crossing the line”? I don’t see SLMU as lending a helping hand to the company at all. I see it as a way to get the schedule I want, that they won’t give me, without doing anything extra for them.

You don’t have to burn up 100% of your sick time.... it’s as simple as doing the right thing. Don’t feel good? Call in sick. Terrible nights sleep? Call in fatigued. Maintenance discrepancy? Right it up. If everyone did the right thing 20% of the time instead of “ gettin’ it done” the company would be howling.

Write.


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Don't write anything that can get you in trouble or your posts being copy/pasted in a future TRO like Spirit. Stop giving anyone any evidence.

Pilots either get it or they don't. Nothing should have to be written. And that's all there is to say about that subject.

I’m comfortable advocating for pilots to fly safely in airworthy aircraft...

That being I agree that discretion is important on public forums..

I fail to see how using SLMU is in any way considered not doing the right thing. Do you know what SLMU is and how to use it?