I've heard jetBlue, Southwest, American, Delta, and Hawaiian. So pretty much everybody then...

It will be called Pangia Air.

Sounds very credible indeed. I now recall that GK does tell all the boards decisions to the new hires. They have such a fantastic open door policy, CEO to new hire, there really are no secrets. Thank you for securing and sharing such reliable and valuable information, I had no idea.

This 100% correct. At this point we will take a merger with anyone..lol. moral is pretty low at this time.

Do not understand the whole merger/buyout love on APC. Everyone of them ends up being a seniority list integration nightmare.

AS has been being bought/merged since at least 1990. First it was AA. Then DL. Then SWA. Then AA again. Then AS was buying Reno. Then AA again. Then SWA. Then AS/HA merger.

None of it happened. The VX acquisition was the first blip in that 28 year history and that was just because they had so much money laying around they had to buy something.. The boys at Angle Lake aren't going to kill the golden goose anytime soon.

I agree with you, other than “pretty”. I have not seen morale this low EVER. Its sad.

Is this all coming from the VX side? I haven’t been experiencing this pit of misery you guys speak of. Sure, the contract can be greatly improved but that time will come soon. This is just a job. I can’t imagine it having total control of anyone’s happiness. Are the folks you’re flying with total sh!tbags? What’s causing such despair? Seems like if you’ve got a good crew and a decent overnight, you’re days at work can’t be so totally filled with unhappiness.

I agree. But it may not be up to them...

believe what you want. These walls are funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. After long enough, you get so you depend on 'em. That's 'institutionalized.'

Even the Chief pilot newsletter mentions low pilot morale.

This!!

Byron Hadley clubs you enough times, you grow to accept it, especially if you have zero self worth.

QUOTE=Flaps1check;2608892]believe what you want. These walls are funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. After long enough, you get so you depend on 'em. That's 'institutionalized.'[/QUOTE]

Double This!!!!

SNAFU - Situation Normal, All Fd Up

There will always be a group of pilots in any airline who find themselves in a great position despite the sht storm that's swirling around them, but I've spoken with enough AS guys to believe that morale is low among not just the VX crews...

Pilot morale is our perception of the company... Everyone I've been flying with knows that the company doesn't give a sh*t about them, and it's been that way for yeeeeeeeears... they do what's required and what is safe. I don't know how morale is in SEA since I don't fly with you guys.


Happiness on an overnight is unrelated.. we still hang out as a crew, still get a beer and burger, etc.

Maybe I’m reading too deep into all these posts but are you moping around while at work? Normally, I climb into my seat, the CA and I have a 5-10 min ***** session about what’s wrong with the contract and then the rest of trip goes pretty well. All I’ve ever done is what’s required of me and what’s safe. That’s what they hired me for. I don’t wear flair and I don’t rah rah. Alaska Airlines is just a place I work. I’ll do my part to make it a better place to work when given the chance. I guess I just haven’t seen the effects of low morale. I mean everyone is still showing up for work right? As far as I can tell, as long as the planes keep moving, morale ain’t a problem in the company’s eyes...

How long have you worked here? I am guessiing not long. Try B scale, 5 yrs as an FO and then a 34% paycut. Won’t even mention the upgrade years in the mid teens to hold SEA or PDX.

Morale is not great but it doesn’t scratch the surface for guys who lived the above, not to mention the furloughees. I am no company stooge but as some posters have mentioned, you are only heading for divorce or an early grave if you even give two thoughts about this place when not at work. Fly the contract and nothing more. Save some coin and be ready to fight in ‘20.

Otherwise leave for greener pastures. Most of us did not have that option because the whole industry was in the toilet back then.

Not sure about new hires, but this was spoken in recurrent classes. I don’t have NDA stuff to share. Sorry. But hey, I’m glad you have reliable and valuable information. Makes me feel a lot better.

Flynndawg,

While you were living your Kasher misery, a lot of VX guys were waking up to not having an airline to work for at all. Remember Aloha, ATA, Airborne and Independence? We had to start over and suffer fighting for representation, fighting for decent work rules and fair treatment. One of the only things we were given from the start was commutable schedules.

Yes, we got a raise. You did as well in advance of your amendable date. Becoming Eskimos isn't the problem as most of us don't care what the call sign or paint job is, we just want good work rules and good schedules. When we see an email from SEA crew planning telling us to pound sand over commutable schedules and see evidence of gate agents being told to slam the jetway doors on last minute commuters it sets an unnecessarily adverse tone. This is why the morale is low on the Bus side.

Seeing more MEL stickers in one day than we've seen in a whole month and the upcoming SLI award are just the whipped cream and cherry topping to a big ca-ca sundae.

So we acknowledge the raw deal you got over a decade ago. Please acknowledge that together we can work to fix this place for the better. If not, it will be a case of crips vs bloods and the company wins while we fight. Be smart.

Most of the rest of the industry sucked it up too, stuck in an RJ... or furloughed back to one.

Morale is low but the company can give 2 cents about it. If the eskimo isn't giving you enough love then leave, if you can. I am.

You're still here? I'm disappointed. Where's your gumption?

You missed me? I’m more chill these days knowing I won’t have to deal with being integrated wit a bunch of misfits.:D

You're not gone yet. lol

My bad. I assumed you were on the Alaska side originally. I fully acknowledge the **** sandwich a lot of VXers have endured by having to start over after your previous carriers shut the doors. I was directing my comment towards some of the newer hires I have flown with.

Also agree that bringing our work rules in line with the rest of our peers and getting some scope language is where our focus as a group needs to be.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...k-in-progress/

What we probably won’t see: a merger with another smaller player, such as JetBlue or Frontier, especially after Alaska’s issues digesting Virgin America. With 68% of the US market still dominated by the Big Four, Alaska’s challenge will be to prove that bigger doesn’t necessarily mean better—or more profitable.

Other commentary has contradicted that. Just one guy's opinion.

If AS thinks they can thrive on whatever small organic growth they can achieve, they would probably prefer to go solo. But I'm sure not AS, or many other folks, think they can do that in the very large shadow of the big four.

Simply anectodal evidence but, it seems Alaska only has three options:
1. Grow organically over time before they get run out by Delta in SEA and SWA to the South.
Not likely their plan since they keep pushing orders back, slowing growth projections and slowing hiring.

2. Grow through M&A.
Not looking likely soon because of what they paid for Virgin America AND the fact that they wouldn’t have even done THAT, if JBlue hadn’t forced their hand.

3. Be purchased. And go away as a brand.
I’ve been told that the leadership doesn’t want to be known as the team that sold away the Alaska legacy. But, in time they might not have a choice.

I am based in SEA but I live in the south. The land of Delta. And, thankfully we’re now serving cities here in their back yard. ATL, BNA, RDU etc. But here’s the difference in Delta’s philosophy in SEA vs Alaska’s doing in the East.... Delta is AGRESSIVELY pursuing Alaska’s market. And I’m guessing SWA will do the same to Hawaii.
Alaska’s response is, “well we are gonna just keep being so amazing that nobody in the PNW or Alaska or California will use our competition.”

I thought that maybe since Alaska is going to all the East and Southeast destinations, maybe they’d be gearing up for trying to market themselves as a better alternative to Delta or JetBlue to people who previously never considered Alaska.... but they aren’t.

There’s no marketing of Alaska in Nashville to Nashvillians to go to SEA or SFO, or Hawaii. There’s none in ATL or RDU etc. And I wondered “Why? Why would you let Delta come in YOUR town and market themselves as the airline for Washingtonians by being THE airline for the Seahawks and not push back by marketing/educating Delta’s customers in the South, that we have a better product.

And then it dawned on me. They aren’t interested. The flights to all those cities in the East, aren’t to compete with Eastern based airlines for some of their market share with people who live in the East. They serve so cities just to give more options for folks that live in the PNW, Cali, or Alaska, or used to and know our brand already.

They want to grow our route structure, and have. But not to take the fight to the East coast, but to just hang on to or slightly gain a little more of what they’ve always been, a great PNW and Alaska based airline.

I don’t think that’s a viable strategy with what Delta and SWA are bringing to bear, but I guess time will tell.

Fact, I know several guys that commute from Tennessee, Georgia, and NC on the vx side and all have said there has been exactly zero advertising and few have ever heard of alaska in their hometowns.

Exactly. And I wondered why at first. But, kinda like hearing the term “flying southeast” over and over and realizing they actually meant southeast Alaska, not Valdosta, GA, I realized that when they say they want to be “the West Coast” airline, they don’t mean we want to be a national airline BASED out of the West Coast, what they really mean is they wanna be a regional airline who reaches out and and touches East coast cities. So, from Alaska’s perspective Boston, JFK, ATL, BNA etc is to Alaska management what Madrid, Heathrow, and Paris are to the majors. It’s like self-imposed domestic cabotage rules.

Alaska??? Not a chance, they have no foresight or desire to be anything other than what they are.

First and foremost DAL has 6x the market cap and AS is afraid to get smacked down like the 4 state bush league regional that it is. Small thinkers get small results. Doing anything different would put AS so far out of its league they just simply would not know what to do.

Hurtling conservatively into the past for 85 years...that's the motto up there on the lake.

I want this airline to succeed and be profitable since I work here but anyone who wishes ill will on their company to fail needs to reevaluate their lifes plan. With that being said everything being sent down to us illustrates zero hope that this place can and will succeed. Given how large our competitiors are it’s not even possible even using the standard mgmt reaponse of we need to cut pay to compete. We could earn a 1/4 of our current rates and we couldn’t break even with the legacies and Southwest just due to their economies of scale.

Well, I can see you are all really pilots. On the whining scale, you all are in the top 2%. On the financial scale, bottom 10% or clueless zone. Alaska's Quarter 2 looks pretty good, and Q3 looks even better. Maybe your 4 year upgrade will be delayed by 4 years but the company is doing well, the big hurdles are in the rearview. Your economics of scale rhetoric shows your lack of economic intellect. Alaska is a strong, smart, well run company. It’s not about size, it’s about bottom line, profit margins, and shareholders ROI. The only danger of scale is consumption not viability. Stick to mutual funds would be my advice!

Have any of you looked at the current liabilities of AAL or UAL? Those numbers are terrifying, unless you believe recessions are fairytales, existing only in the legends of days gone by.

Latest financials 6/14/18
Form 8-k
https://fintel.io/s/us/alk

Added 136 million in cash since end of March, bought back another 96k of shares; a total of $21 million shares bought back ytd.

Alaska has always been a fraction of the size of most other airlines. Alaska has always paid less then most other airlines.
Alaska has always had a niche market.
Alaska has always grown and retracted with relation to the ups and downs of the economy.
Alaska’s highs have never been as high as the larger airlines but the lows haven’t been as low either.
Alaska has been in existence longer than most other airlines and....
Alaska has survived as Alaska Airlines for nearly a century.
Love the place, hate the place, we’re gonna be just fine and all have jobs, should you choose to work here.

You are correcto on AAL and UAL, time will tell, let’s see how that one goes.

as a viable airline Alaska has existed since their merger with JetAmerica. Prior to that it was a train wreck on any given day, week, month. They grew up a little at that point and had to act like a scheduled passenger carrier. All of the BS about being an old established carrier is just that. With this merger they need to grow up again. Move past their regional airline structure and mindset. So far they are clinging to what they know. However they have drawn the attention of for big well run powerful airlines. Something they have never done before. No question as a botique investment firm they have exceeded expectations. Remains to be seen whether they can do that running an airline.

You’re kidding, right? UAL’s Annual capital obligation for long-term debt payments are between $1.1B and $1.4B each year for the next 4 years. Just in the 1st quarter of 2018 alone UAL had a Net Cash Flow of $1.7B! They have so much cash they’ve bought back over $9B of shares just in the last 3 years. The current liability numbers are bigger because they do $37B a year of revenue, vs. Alaska’s $7.9B of revenue. Adjusted for revenue, UAL’s debt is less than Alaska’s as a percentage of revenue.

Shhhhh. Don’t go messing with a good rant! Who cares about facts!

No not kidding.

However, like fellow major airline American Airlines (NASDAQ:AAL), United is spending beyond its means on buybacks. This move could be dangerous for investors in the long run.


This means that United Continental has borrowed every dollar it has returned to shareholders this year. Free cash flow may improve somewhat next year, as capex is set to decline after peaking at $4.6 billion-$4.8 billion in 2017. Still, free cash flow is likely to remain far below the peak levels of 2015 and 2016.

It's also far from clear that the stock is undervalued. While United Continental recently raised its fourth-quarter revenue outlook, it still expects unit revenue to decline 0%-2% year over year. In the long run, it is likely to face higher competition from low-fare carriers in many markets. The company hopes to offset these headwinds through better segmentation and revenue management, but those efforts aren't guaranteed to succeed.

Moreover, jet fuel prices have moved significantly higher in the past few months. As a result, United Continental may need full-year unit revenue growth of 3%-4% in 2018 just to keep its profit margin stable.

If United's profitability will continue to fall in 2018, 10 times earnings might be a very generous valuation. Meanwhile, adding debt to fund share buybacks boosts EPS, but it could also get the company into trouble during the next recession. United Continental shareholders may eventually come to regret management's current love affair with share buybacks.

Wow you are a financial guru. This coming from the same guy:

:rolleyes: