How Do I Get To Alaska?
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
fly4booz,
You sound ticked off and angry with the VX purchase. What did you lose with the merger? I just lost my base and forced to either commute 2,200 nm to the next closest base, or uproot/disrupt the family and move them across the country. But sure, I'll answer...
I don't need to ask them anything. The transcripts are out for all to see. Each side did what they think is best for their own group, as would be expected.
Yes ALPA was voted in June 2015. The rest is irrelevant. It is (and was) an ALPA carrier when it was acquired in April 2016.
With ALPA voted in 9 months prior to the purchase date, it's unrealistic to have expected a new contract within 9 months. jetBlue just took 3 years for their first agreement after voting in ALPA. Stuff like that takes time. And VX does have a real seniority list. You may not like looking at it, but it's real.
It sounds like you're bitter over the VX proposal. And you've clearly said what AS was proposing was a "fair deal" so clearly you're heavily biased. I've come across some (and you sound like you're in that boat) that would be entirely POed if even one VX guy went above you on the final list. It's probably gonna happen, and best if you stop worrying about a list you can't control.
ALPA merger policy isn't an opinion, and it covers this scenario which is why it is applying here.
Now this is an opinion.
Hey, believe me I wish jetBlue did purchase us. Much closer culture, same business model, same fleet, much closer longevity for the two carriers, etc. etc. As for your "Uncle Brad and his boys" they had no choice if they wanted Alaska to stay as Alaska. That's why they paid what they did for VX. Delta is attacking your backyard in SEA pretty hard.
Yes, as mentioned the longevity variance is huge for the two companies. But it's a west coast regional airline that has always paid lower than the legacies with the primary draw of living where you wanted: PNW or Alaska. It's always been that way, and your contract reflects that.
What stepping stone? VX's attrition rate was similar to AS, proportionately speaking. We have lots of guys from Aloha, ATA, US Airways, AWA, and all sorts of other big airlines. When VX had it's primary run of attrition in 2011/2012/2013, it was mostly due to guys taking their recall rights back to United and AA.
I'd like to know who perpetuated this BS. My degree is in Aerospace Engineering.
VX was pretty tough to get on, and even the selection numbers for the interviews were low. In my group 5 out of 11 were hired. And btw, one guy not hired in my interview group at VX was hired by AS later that year. You can ask him which carrier was easier to get on.
AS has taken zero PIC too. These days PIC isn't a discriminate thing anymore.
Of course you did. And AS knows too, which is why they capitalize on your types. It's okay to admit you prioritize a geographic location over pay, but that's no longer true with Delta available for SEA, all the big airlines for LAX, and Fdx/UPS available for ANC.
Isn't that why you dreamed about working for AS? If you could be honest with yourself this quoted portion statement you just made is true for Alaska even before the VX purchase.
You sound ticked off and angry with the VX purchase. What did you lose with the merger? I just lost my base and forced to either commute 2,200 nm to the next closest base, or uproot/disrupt the family and move them across the country. But sure, I'll answer...
ALPA-ALPA carriers? You gotta be joking, right? You guys only voted in ALPA months before the acquisition was announced.
You don't even have a contract or a real seniority list.
This isn't a co-equal marriage. You guys want to treat it like DAL+NWA and UAL+CAL but it just isn't the same by a long shot.
Acquisition vs. merger is irrelevant? I think not but everyone is entitled to an opinion.
You guys were well on your way of becoming Aloha II.
Alaska would not lose a bidding war with B6 and if Uncle Brad and his boys didn't acquire VX, some two bit investment company would have and dismantled your beloved airline. Or best case, you would be in the same boat as Frontier.
If you want to stick with "merger", the two companies are apples to orange. Let's start with 10 year old company vs. 85.
Stepping stone vs. career.
No college vs. college.
Easy to get on vs. very selective.
Zero PIC vs. ....And the list goes on.
I'm willing to bet that no child ever dreamed of being a VX pilot. Well, I dreamed of being a Alaska Airlines pilot ever since I can remember and so did many of my peers. The less pay than the big three that you are talking about is somewhat true but when you look at the overall package, Alaska's isn't too far off especially for those older dudes still with a pension. Did you know that Alaska pilots were the highest paid at one point?
Unless driving to work or flying in the same time zone is the most important thing in your life or you just love Alaska, it makes no sense to stay if you are in your 30s or even low 40s.
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
One more thing.
Alaska has been trying to put VX out of business since VX's existence. Alaska was the first one to oppose VX's certificate. Alaska only purchased VX to keep B6 out. That's it! VX truly does not offer anything worth a dime to Alaska. Incase you haven't noticed, your JFK base is closing and airbus flying will diminish over time until there are zero buses on the property. Who overpays for something that they never wanted in the first place, takes it apart and throws it away? What Alaska really wanted and needs is a midwest hub. VX only brought a headache and a huge debt to eskimo. It's Alaska's Hamburger Hill.
Alaska has been trying to put VX out of business since VX's existence. Alaska was the first one to oppose VX's certificate. Alaska only purchased VX to keep B6 out. That's it! VX truly does not offer anything worth a dime to Alaska. Incase you haven't noticed, your JFK base is closing and airbus flying will diminish over time until there are zero buses on the property. Who overpays for something that they never wanted in the first place, takes it apart and throws it away? What Alaska really wanted and needs is a midwest hub. VX only brought a headache and a huge debt to eskimo. It's Alaska's Hamburger Hill.
Last edited by ShyGuy; 05-26-2018 at 10:16 AM.
#56
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 16
Yeah I noticed JFK is closing, I'm one of the affected ones. You sound like a broken record here. In this merger so far you've lost nothing! But best of luck in your next endeavor. I hope to join you soon in that regard. Unlike your situation, I have no choice if I ever want to get back to a NY base again.
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
I’m not upset with the purchase of VX. None of us had any control. I just don’t agree with how the SLI is playing out. Alaska and VX are not in the same league by any standard and obviously, you don’t like this reality. Every one of my peers knew that VX wasn’t a career airline. I guess you never got the intel. Looks like you’re an angry man but I sympathize with your situation due to your base closure. I really don’t have a dog in this fight anymore and realize that no one can change your views on anything. Hopefully DAL or B6 will pick you up. I hear JFK base goes very junior.
What are you so disappointed about the SLI proposal? You knew Virgin wasn’t a career airline? That’s nice, probably the same way I never applied to a Pacific Northwest regional type flying called Alaska. Anyway, Alaska’s proposal pretty much puts the first VX guy in the 2000 DOH range, and thats the #1 guy hired in Dec 2006. What else are you expecting? You wanted a true DOH merger? That’s not how it works. It looks like you thought you worked for a real legacy airline buying a small regional airline and expected a staple job. The SLI is headed to arbitration just like pretty much all the others have for the past 20 years for ALPA-ALPA carriers.
#58
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 16
I think I’m done here. I wish the best for both sides. I’ve enjoyed the flying, layovers, and hanging with some of the coolest crews. I really wished I could talk myself into staying but I can’t see myself being happy here in the long run. SLI and scheduling alone sealed the deal. I may not get what I’m looking for elsewhere but at least I can make more money and buy my QOL. Peace out!
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 647
Possibly the most constructive thing I've read on any of these threads in the last month. And it's especially refreshing to read this, given that you admittedly
So from those of us that do still have a dog in this stupid fight in spite of our attempts to leave it, thank you for volunteering to put a stop to the seemingly endless cycle that pervades the rest of this forum:
1. "You guys (AS/VX) needed us more than we needed you"
2. "Let me (VX/AS) tell you why you're wrong, and it's you that got the windfall, not us"
3. "Guys, we need to be one pilot group. 2020! No scope no vote!"
4. "Totally! But just to clarify a few things... "
5. See 1
Please don't disappoint me by replying anymore.
So from those of us that do still have a dog in this stupid fight in spite of our attempts to leave it, thank you for volunteering to put a stop to the seemingly endless cycle that pervades the rest of this forum:
1. "You guys (AS/VX) needed us more than we needed you"
2. "Let me (VX/AS) tell you why you're wrong, and it's you that got the windfall, not us"
3. "Guys, we need to be one pilot group. 2020! No scope no vote!"
4. "Totally! But just to clarify a few things... "
5. See 1
Please don't disappoint me by replying anymore.
#60
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Now he is one. Dream accomplished. Corny as it sounds, he's living his dream.
Not everyone is in this business to fly wide bodies internationally for the money. More than a few are all about their families. That means QoL trumps $$$. Everyone wishes they could make more money but the key to happiness is living within your means.
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