Alaska slowing growth...
07-05-2018, 12:03 PM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: This side of the dirt.
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Biz, I understand your argument and I agree with you on many things but to say there hasn’t been clear prejudice/accusation/declaration, coming from some of the VX pilots towards the AS pilots is just false. As much mud has been slung from your side of the fence as has from ours. Your guys have lumped every AS pilot into one group of so called “spineless sell outs”, even though 700 pilots of the current 2000 were hired AFTER the last contract was voted in. We have not yet had a chance to make change at this company and before anyone declares that by simply coming here we’ve “sold out”, look no further than your own circumstances and reasons for being at VX. Before you say you voted in ALPA and change was imminent, remember our CBA was amendable this past Spring and many of US thought real, positive, change was imminent. I think if you were to sit down and compare lists with an AS pilot, you’d find that contrary to your pre judged belief that our priorities are different, you’d be shocked at how similar they are. My main argument has been that neither side comes from a position of superiority and therefore the soap box rhetoric is absolutely meaningless. Every argument has it’s counter argument so why not try and move past this nonsense. We may all be very different people in our daily lives but at work, we’re all pilots so let’s agree to get what we deserve as pilots and the only way of doing that is as one group.
I can’t believe it. Hopefully starting to see a coalition come together. 🥃🥃
07-06-2018, 05:49 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Biz, I understand your argument and I agree with you on many things but to say there hasn’t been clear prejudice/accusation/declaration, coming from some of the VX pilots towards the AS pilots is just false. As much mud has been slung from your side of the fence as has from ours. Your guys have lumped every AS pilot into one group of so called “spineless sell outs”, even though 700 pilots of the current 2000 were hired AFTER the last contract was voted in. We have not yet had a chance to make change at this company and before anyone declares that by simply coming here we’ve “sold out”, look no further than your own circumstances and reasons for being at VX. Before you say you voted in ALPA and change was imminent, remember our CBA was amendable this past Spring and many of US thought real, positive, change was imminent. I think if you were to sit down and compare lists with an AS pilot, you’d find that contrary to your pre judged belief that our priorities are different, you’d be shocked at how similar they are. My main argument has been that neither side comes from a position of superiority and therefore the soap box rhetoric is absolutely meaningless. Every argument has it’s counter argument so why not try and move past this nonsense. We may all be very different people in our daily lives but at work, we’re all pilots so let’s agree to get what we deserve as pilots and the only way of doing that is as one group.
Yes, on this forum, mud has been slung on both sides, but primarily for two vastly different reasons. Whereas mud (to use your term) has been slung at you guys for being spineless (again borrowing your term) collectively; mud have been slung at us from your side not primarily for our actions, but from the fundamental point of view that VX pilots are a lower class of pilots than AS pilots or any other legacy pilot for that matter.
Like I said, you can question why a pilot went to VX with substandard pay, a question which I think has been answered quite well, but to question a whole pilot group's professional and personal worth, coming basically from a mindset of superiority, was the problem that I had with the postings and probably why our guys started to give you guys *h*t about your contract.
As a side note, prior to starting on the road to becoming a part of AS, I honestly thought of them as a big legacy carrier.... in name, in age, in operation, in contract, in schedule, in QOL, etc..
For me, it really is a culture shock to come to the realization that it is a legacy carrier in name and age only and I'm not talking about the pilots here, but rather the airline itself. (And yes, I get it and appreciate the fact that it's been a profitable airline and it does have its strength but we wouldn't be pilots if we didn't point out the warts too
As we seem to all agree tho, we have to be united in our efforts to get us where we ought to be with our contract and hopefully the rest will follow.
Last edited by All Bizniz; 07-06-2018 at 06:01 AM.
07-06-2018, 07:34 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by All Bizniz
Knock knock, if you missed the point of my argument then it is my fault for not being as clear and concise as I should have been.
Yes, on this forum, mud has been slung on both sides, but primarily for two vastly different reasons. Whereas mud (to use your term) has been slung at you guys for being spineless (again borrowing your term) collectively; mud have been slung at us from your side not primarily for our actions, but from the fundamental point of view that VX pilots are a lower class of pilots than AS pilots or any other legacy pilot for that matter.
Like I said, you can question why a pilot went to VX with substandard pay, a question which I think has been answered quite well, but to question a whole pilot group's professional and personal worth, coming basically from a mindset of superiority, was the problem that I had with the postings and probably why our guys started to give you guys *h*t about your contract.
As a side note, prior to starting on the road to becoming a part of AS, I honestly thought of them as a big legacy carrier.... in name, in age, in operation, in contract, in schedule, in QOL, etc..
For me, it really is a culture shock to come to the realization that it is a legacy carrier in name and age only and I'm not talking about the pilots here, but rather the airline itself. (And yes, I get it and appreciate the fact that it's been a profitable airline and it does have its strength but we wouldn't be pilots if we didn't point out the warts too
As we seem to all agree tho, we have to be united in our efforts to get us where we ought to be with our contract and hopefully the rest will follow.
Yes, on this forum, mud has been slung on both sides, but primarily for two vastly different reasons. Whereas mud (to use your term) has been slung at you guys for being spineless (again borrowing your term) collectively; mud have been slung at us from your side not primarily for our actions, but from the fundamental point of view that VX pilots are a lower class of pilots than AS pilots or any other legacy pilot for that matter.
Like I said, you can question why a pilot went to VX with substandard pay, a question which I think has been answered quite well, but to question a whole pilot group's professional and personal worth, coming basically from a mindset of superiority, was the problem that I had with the postings and probably why our guys started to give you guys *h*t about your contract.
As a side note, prior to starting on the road to becoming a part of AS, I honestly thought of them as a big legacy carrier.... in name, in age, in operation, in contract, in schedule, in QOL, etc..
For me, it really is a culture shock to come to the realization that it is a legacy carrier in name and age only and I'm not talking about the pilots here, but rather the airline itself. (And yes, I get it and appreciate the fact that it's been a profitable airline and it does have its strength but we wouldn't be pilots if we didn't point out the warts too
As we seem to all agree tho, we have to be united in our efforts to get us where we ought to be with our contract and hopefully the rest will follow.
07-06-2018, 09:14 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Well Biz, I’ve never agreed with those who’ve lashed out and trashed VX pilots for spite. I think it’s petty and does nothing to move our collective needle forward. I don’t think that the overwhelming majority of AS folks feel as though VX pilots are substandard pilots. Those spewing that trash on here are truly a vocal minority. What I’ve seen is that most guys/gals have issues with longevity (of VX) and balance sheet but never questioned the pilots abilities or legitimacy. The few I’ve flow with that start down that path I’ve reminded how many of you guys have long histories in the industry and the conversation quickly turns to something else. Mergers unfortunately bring out the ugly side in some. Once we look past our pride we’ll see that both groups have very similar wish lists for 2020. We, (those of us not o.k. with status quo), are in the majority now. We’ve got a real shot at making this place a true legacy airline. We all want better and hopefully soon we will demand better. Even those of us who live in base!
07-06-2018, 04:05 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by Saltlife85
Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Cmon’ everyone.!!
Kumbaya, my lord Kumbaya !
Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya
Cmon’ everyone.!!
Kumbaya, my lord Kumbaya !
07-08-2018, 09:57 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,282
Why September?
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
Hawaiian Airlines' new CEO says he's ready to battle Southwest Airlines whenever the Texas-based budget airline brings its discount airfares.
Peter Ingram, who took the helm at the Hawaiian March 1 after being chief commercial and chief financial officer for 12 years, says the island carrier has already competed effectively for years against three large airlines — Delta, United Airlines and American — on its home turf.
"I'm very confident that we have a cost structure that will allow us to be competitive," Ingram said in an interview in Seattle while he was in town for employee meetings.
—————————————————
Seems like Peter has been spending a lot of time in Seattle. Look for this thing to be announced late September. I think SWA or DAL could try and play spoiler. If not there will be no contract in 2020. Just another two year arbitrated award and another SLI to bicker about.
Peter Ingram, who took the helm at the Hawaiian March 1 after being chief commercial and chief financial officer for 12 years, says the island carrier has already competed effectively for years against three large airlines — Delta, United Airlines and American — on its home turf.
"I'm very confident that we have a cost structure that will allow us to be competitive," Ingram said in an interview in Seattle while he was in town for employee meetings.
—————————————————
Seems like Peter has been spending a lot of time in Seattle. Look for this thing to be announced late September. I think SWA or DAL could try and play spoiler. If not there will be no contract in 2020. Just another two year arbitrated award and another SLI to bicker about.
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