rickair7777

Lame throwing your mil service into this discussion. It's irrelevant and reflects poorly on all the rest of us. You're not entitled to anything airline because of your mil experience. If you airdrop into airlines mid-career you also owe the civilian pilots some thanks for establishing and maintaining the work conditions and pay you enjoy.

Sikorsky38

The Horizon pilot group has struggled to obtain respectable wage rates, because AAG management has played a great game of offering just enough of non hourly rate increases to keep new pilots coming in the front door. From someone who has been at Horizon for a few decades, when we keep having to live with 1% annual wage increases, what is in it for us when we are asked to support the industry? If the Alaska pilots want our support, maybe they should think about supporting us in our fight for quality of life/work. Start working with our union to staple us to the bottom of Alaska's seniority list. As of the staple date, QX pilots begin accruing AS seniority. A QX captain can continue flying the Q400 or E jet until their new seniority gives them enough seniority to move to a mainline plane. Management won't do this on their own. I say QX pilots should push hard for the E195 until AS ALPA wakes up to the idea of union teamwork. It isn't just Horizon pilots that are thinking only of themselves. AS management has had great success at working over both QX and AS work groups. Their success will likely continue unless our two pilot groups start working together.

Bugaboo

You are the worst type of former military....the guy that likes to throw it in peoples face that they were out “keeping our family safe”.
🙄

Flitestar

This gem right here. Pretty weak to throw your service to the nation in people’s faces. As Rickair mentioned, makes former military look bad.

Reactivity

Yeah. It's nothing like saying, "If you airdrop into airlines mid-career you also owe the civilian pilots some thanks for establishing and maintaining the work conditions and pay you enjoy."

rickair7777

It's the truth. I'm military (decades), this is a discussion about scope, not mil service.

Excargodog

That^^^^^^

Work4life

You are all ***** cats. Cats are easily distracted by simply waving a toy and the cat will give its complete attention to this toy while losing all SA. Cats also get butt hurt easily just like you all do. Hence, you are all just emotionally unstable WDs who only know to lash out.
What I state are facts but you take them as boasting. With exception of early days of the union, which btw was well before our time, what exactly has ALPA done to improve your average pilots' QOL, pay, and bennies? They've been caving left and right to management in exchange for seniority-senior pilots eating the young. How many sell outs have there been, even here at your small pilot group? How about union drops for personal gain and boondoggle "union meetings" in Las Vegas and other enticing locations while feasting it up with union dues?
I understand that civilian pilots have to gain experience some how but you do realize that when you work for a regional, especially one with a non-unionized pilot group, that you are aiding the very entity that is undercutting our profession?!?! It's hilarious and hideous that all of you ex-regional pilots, especially SKW, scream bloody murder for Scope when you yourselves were the very offenders of it all. Oh and let's not forget about all you losers who paid for training and worked for free to gain flight hours at a regional back in the day. You know who you are. I owe you exactly what now??? A blanket party perhaps.
Bash away.

rickair7777

I rest my case.

KnockKnock

This isn’t directed at you, I’m responding to some points you’ve made. Here we are 2 years later arguing the same fruitless points about who’s worth their salt and who’s a worthless two bit *****. The same exhausted talking points that haven’t changed anyone’s minds or enlightenment either side as to who, what, where, why or when any one person made their career decisions. The same regurgitated cud over and over and over for two years! The VX side paints the entire AS pilot group as spineless pushovers who’ve agreed to crummy contracts but gets defensive when an AS pilot paints the entire VX pilot group as weak sellouts who willingly signed up to work for a non union, working agreement that had just as many holes in it as the AS contract. The VX side beats the drum about how fast they organized and voted in ALPA but simply won’t recognize that by working for a non union carrier for 10 years without knowing IF or WHEN the pilots would EVER organize, flys in the face of organized labor. You simply cannot argue out of both sides of your mouth saying that, “we’ll, VX was the only place hiring in those days and regardless of no scope, less pay, less retirement, worse work rules, etc. I did what was best for my family.” And in the next breath say, “how dare any AS pilot allow such a weak contract with no scope, less pay, less retirement and worse work rules,” etc. while doing what they perceived as best for their families. It is absolutely the most blatant case of the pot calling the kettle black. Now that I have just fallen into the trap of arguing the same points I have stated more than once over the last two years, I’d like to point out a few things. You mention CAL, USA, UAL and I’ll add DAL, NWA and AA, having all gone through gutting of contracts and having to fight their way back to their current state of business. What do all of these carriers have in common? Mergers!!! Every one of them. They’ve all grown and gained strength through mergers and have ALL gone through exactly what we’re going through right now. Not a single one of these companies was completely successful on their own. Could those companies have achieved their current success on their own? Maybe, maybe not, just like we’ll never know if VX could have succeeded on it’s first contract. USA, and CAL had some of the worst work rules and pay in the industry. USA/AMW was by all accounts, an absolutely miserable place to work during their merger. CAL had abysmal pay rates and contract language until they joined UAL. UAL was the place to go if you wanted a company enforced leave of absence every few years. DAL pilots were coolaid drinking yes men until the “burn it to the ground”, NWA pilots showed up. Each and every one of these groups argued that the other side was weak and would have vanished if not for the other company swooping in and saving them. DAL, was able to turn down a contract and set the bar on their next one because of the threat of all the NWA pilots walking since they’d done it before. Some of these groups are still arguing amongst themselves over which was the better company and who saved who. AS has been through the gutting of a contract, furloughs and much discontent amongst the pilots. Now we are going through our merger. My point to all of this is we are not in uncharted territory, we are not a special case, we are going through the exact motions almost ALL of our peers have gone through and I see a bright future ahead. I see a unified group getting over their individual pride and fighting together for a contract we can be proud of. We are still in our merger infancy. The road map has already been laid down for us so all we have to do if follow in the footsteps of our peers and we will be successful. We are ALL Alaska pilots now, love it or hate it. If you want a contract comparable to DAL, both sides need to acknowledge that. There is no longer an us vs. them, it’s us vs, management. The only special sauce I care about is unity. Oh and wear orange to your, “culture classes”.