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Originally Posted by IFlyNFish
(Post 2728834)
What percentage of the pilot list of AS guys were furloughed relative to DL, UAL, AA?
It doesn’t matter how many rounds, I’m curious what the relative percentage was. Their furloughs may have been longer, but their upside is higher and we like to act like we were some sort of champion during those times and nothing bad happened, which is wrong. FedEx and SWA have those bragging rights but not AS. We saw small growth relative to the length of our history. One or two flights a day to a few places. All companies have been profitable at record levels for years now. Some went to BK to rid themselves of pensions. We gave it away. Which is better? |
Originally Posted by IFlyNFish
(Post 2728834)
Some went to BK to rid themselves of pensions. We gave it away. Which is better?
This has somewhat of an odd "spin". No one gave away anything. Those on the property at the time were given a choice: Keep the A plan. Take a soft freeze with a larger 401k infusion. Or with the new hires take a much larger 401k infusion with no pension at all. It pretty much boiled down to how much longer you had to go to Age 65. VERY different from "giving it away." |
I may be proving your point, in your mind... and you’re also validating the “head in the clouds” mentality that plagues a majority in SEA.
I’d still like to know how many were furloughed percentage relative to the big 3. If I find it I’ll repost. We maybe fared slightly better than the big 3 but we did not do well in the bad times and have not capitalized on great times. With the retirements looming elsewhere, I’d argue it’s better to be the plug at UAL, AA, maybe DL, than to be 85% at AS, today. And I understand the options that were available when the pension was sold out. It wasn’t lost due to BK, the pilots at the time gave it away. |
Originally Posted by IFlyNFish
(Post 2729105)
I may be proving your point, in your mind... and you’re also validating the “head in the clouds” mentality that plagues a majority in SEA.
I’d still like to know how many were furloughed percentage relative to the big 3. If I find it I’ll repost. We maybe fared slightly better than the big 3 but we did not do well in the bad times and have not capitalized on great times. With the retirements looming elsewhere, I’d argue it’s better to be the plug at UAL, AA, maybe DL, than to be 85% at AS, today. And I understand the options that were available when the pension was sold out. It wasn’t lost due to BK, the pilots at the time gave it away. |
Originally Posted by PNWFlyer
(Post 2725240)
Not really an valid comparison. Look at SWA, they are the same as us. Why?, single fleet type. The big 3 fly a lot of different airplanes, while the retirements are big they are not equal across fleet types. Take all of that into account and the difference it is not as bad as the raw numbers indicate.
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Originally Posted by PNWFlyer
(Post 2725240)
Not really an valid comparison. Look at SWA, they are the same as us. Why?, single fleet type. The big 3 fly a lot of different airplanes, while the retirements are big they are not equal across fleet types. Take all of that into account and the difference it is not as bad as the raw numbers indicate.
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Come on Pack Rat.....we voted to ratify an absolute disaster of a TA that got us nothing. Included in that TA we agreed to terminate the pension plan for new hires and replace it with a tax deferred savings plan. All the while the Anglers furloughed 10% of the new guys to “appear tough on capacity restraint”.
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Originally Posted by Klsytakesit
(Post 2729360)
Come on Pack Rat.....we voted to ratify an absolute disaster of a TA that got us nothing. Included in that TA we agreed to terminate the pension plan for new hires and replace it with a tax deferred savings plan. All the while the Anglers furloughed 10% of the new guys to “appear tough on capacity restraint”.
But it’s so much nicer in the clouds than to accept this. They are so soft and puffy. I’m not upset that it happened, but you can’t blur the facts. And with BM’s “willingness to sever relations” with the pilots, don’t think for a second that your not 1 bad quarterly earnings call away from it happening again. (10% cut). I’ve flown with the last guy not furloughed, the guys furloughed, and everything in between... and again, it’s a good job... but back to the OP, we are not in the same conversation as the Big 4, FX and UPS. Even JB and now Spirit have surpassed us. |
Originally Posted by IFlyNFish
(Post 2729445)
we are not in the same conversation as the Big 4, FX and UPS. Even JB and now Spirit have surpassed us.
Scheduling and quality of life provisions need to be fixed once and for all and we HAVE TO BE UNIFIED throughout this process - across bases, across fleets, across seniority and seat positions. |
Originally Posted by All Bizniz
(Post 2729708)
That's is why our upcoming contract negotiations are so important. We have one shot to get to industry standard and we have to make it count.
Scheduling and quality of life provisions need to be fixed once and for all and we HAVE TO BE UNIFIED throughout this process - across bases, across fleets, across seniority and seat positions. If someone else calls, I'm gone. I don't have the patience to look forward to maybe, possibly, in a decade, potentially, as a result of years and years of exhausting negativity and constantly deteriorating management relations and increasingly hostile work environments, finally getting something that everyone else had 10 years ago. I'm approaching 2 years here and I've seen enough. |
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