I remember thinking the same thing 18 years ago. The guys are clueless, they have no idea how hard it is for me. The truth was I didn’t want to wait for anything. I wanted it all right then, I was just feeling sorry for myself. Lucky for me 9-11 happened and this tragic event pushed me to take risk that changed my life. Check back in 18 years, I bet your attitude will be different. You will do very well!

I think you said you have been here 3 years. I apologize if I am remembering wrong. My guess is you will most certainly upgrade 3-4 years from now... hopefully sooner. Starting in 2020, 100-160 upgrades a year going forward. By “quick”, I mean most people can expect 6 years plus or minus a year.

This whole post is poorly worded. 1). Why would anyone think you have it hard when you constantly say how well you do and how easily you do it. 2). I don’t think anyone was lucky that 9-11 happened. It may have pushed you to take risks that panned out for you but it certainly wasn’t a stroke of luck for anyone. Especially the nearly 3000 people that died. I’m confused at what you were going for on this one.

I called it a tragic event. Bad things happen in life. You don’t have as much control as you think. 9-11 ruined many innocent people’s lives, it destroyed our industry. When tragedy happens you can wallow in self pity or you can pick your self up and find a way. I was fortunate, I didn’t lose a loved one. I only had my career destroyed. 9-11 happened, I had no say in it. It was tragic, I was lucky and I didn’t quit. I didn’t rely on this career to give me anything and yet it still has given me a lot. I went out, fought hard and found success. 9-11 drastically changed my life, I chose not to let those monsters destroy my life. I am most certainly lucky, yes fortunate.
My words as I read them now are poor. What I meant was not. I was not lucky 9-11 happened, I was lucky this event didn’t destroy my life, as it did for so many other people. I was lucky, I let this tragic event change my direction, who I was as a person and what I wanted from this life.
9-11’s impact on my life was unequivocally profound, it absolutely reshaped it. I am absolutely lucky it did.

The post certainly didn’t change my view from the bottom. Once I’m off probation I can go into details. I certainly don’t want it all now. Mostly I’d just like to be told the truth.


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You’re in the wrong business if you’re seeking the truth! I wish I could say there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.

It sounds like you’re having a tough go of it here at AS. Everyone is going to have a different view of this place. I probably have a rosier perspective than many because I live in base and was hired at a time of relative progression. I’m able to get out of the company what I need to keep me content and have made my peace with staying and fighting for better. However, I’m not blind to the weaknesses of our contract. AS is not a commuter friendly airline. It seems like you’re screwed on one end of any trip, if not both ends. The rsv rules are poorly written and there are way too many loopholes with vague language. Again, I have a different perspective because I didn’t spend much time on rsv and was driving to a line pretty quick. I’m not sure how long it’s taking new hires to get off rsv these days but it’s probably extended with our pull back in growth. I’d be lying if I said it’s gonna get better because it’s impossible for anyone, (OTZ ;)), to know. I look at AS as a much better down economy airline than it is an up economy airline. IMO, we’ll never experience the extreme lows that the bigger airlines tend to go through but we’re never going to see the high water mark either. I’d like to think we’re going to pull our collective heads out of our shell and hold the line in 2020 but... we’ll only know when the dust settles. If I can try and answer any of your questions or shead light on any part of the contract, I’d be happy to. Feel free to PM me.

I’d disagree that we are a down economy airline, we did not do mich better through the recession than the big 3. Sure, we didn’t claim BK, but last I checked we still furloughed... someone chime in on what percentage it was relative to the big guys? We saw a little growth, but the big 3 have also recovered and grown.

Is this a good job and relatively secure? Sure. But a downturn would not be friendly right now... whereas back to the original poster, everywhere else has the retirements to sustain jobs.

The company didn't declare bankruptcy. AS pilots didn't lose the pension until it was voted away. AS furloughed 1 round for 2.5-3 years vs the deep and multiple furloughs at UA/DL/AA. AS grew between 2002 and 2009 expanding to the east coast and HI. Outside of Kasher, I'd say AS fared "better" during the down years after 9-11. AS has also had it's most profitable yrs in the last decade and while we might not consider it growth the way we as pilots envision it, the company did add VX which technically IS growth. I didn't say AS is impervious to failure and won't experience lows, just that AS' lows haven't been as dramatic. With recent goings on in the economy, this may come into play.

What percentage of the pilot list of AS guys were furloughed relative to DL, UAL, AA?

It doesn’t matter how many rounds, I’m curious what the relative percentage was.

Their furloughs may have been longer, but their upside is higher and we like to act like we were some sort of champion during those times and nothing bad happened, which is wrong. FedEx and SWA have those bragging rights but not AS.

We saw small growth relative to the length of our history. One or two flights a day to a few places.

All companies have been profitable at record levels for years now. Some went to BK to rid themselves of pensions. We gave it away. Which is better?