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- Alaska (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/alaska/)

- - Terrible ethics (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/alaska/121058-terrible-ethics.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2798153)

Nobody is saying that PIC ISN’T a good thing. But changing the rules after the deal has been made is unethical. Arguably, it’s breach of contract. Are you really OK with that?

I understand that the original deal was different than the one you (or I) would have wanted them to make, but are you really OK with management simply voiding the previous deal when they change their minds or - alternatively - that ‘bait and switch’ had always been the going in plan?

Like most airline agreements unless it was written into the CBA, you’re at the whims of what mgt decides to do. Historically speaking, flow agreements never really worked out. Now it’s a changing tide with AA taking lots of their wholly owned flow pilots. I’m not surprised at this change, after all the goal is to keep both seats filled at the regional.

How was Pathways written? Into your offer letter, the CBA, or just some side letter best effort thing by mgt? If it’s the latter, they almost always have a weasel clause that allows the program to be modified as necessary by mgt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF (Post 2798178)

I’m at Alaska and I have 422 hours of TPIC 🤣🤣🤣

According to the email, the average Alaska new hire has 6,200 with 2,200 PIC...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF (Post 2798178)

I’m at Alaska and I have 422 hours of TPIC 🤣🤣🤣

Have you been asked to be the director of training or CP yet? Oh wait, did your dad work here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyFlyer (Post 2797916)

I fly on AS often and have numerous friends that work there. I generally had respect for your management team (as an outsider) because I (kind of) feel like they practiced what they preach.

But no more.

I have friends that are in your Pathways program with Horizon, and I’m embarrassed at what a laughing stock and sh*tty program that truly is. Your management team locks people in as future AS pilots, and then keeps moving the goal post further away on them.

Congrats, we’ll hire you at Alaska. But no, you can’t interview as an off the street hire and get here sooner without pulling your guaranteed job offer through the Pathway’s program away. Even though your credentials are great (and we’ve already hired you), I wouldn’t give up that guaranteed job offer for our other, harder, interview process that has no guarantees! Thanks for staying a Horizon employee for another three years. :)

Or, Congrats, we’ll hire you, only to now (as of yesterday) require you to have 1,000 PIC at Horizon before we bring you onboard. So for those FO’s who were “hired,” don’t wait to upgrade and enjoy your quality of life knowing you have a job in hand. Because it’s not there until you get hours that weren’t required when we “hired” you...

How bogus is this place!?! It’s not the requirements (1,000 PIC) that frustrate me. It’s the fact that they are changing the requirements of those already vested and “hired” into the program. They waited 8 months to make this announcement, so guys could have made life choices to upgrade sooner if they’d known the requirements when interviewing.

What a trash move by angle lake. Your management team doesn’t behave and act as they preach with their core values. What an embarrassment.

I will never recommend them to any friends as a place to work. This is the 4th bogus move that I’ve seen that is just insulting to people who strive to do their best every day, for a crappy management team that doesn’t seem to care about anyone but themselves. Not impressed.

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Like other flow programs it's sole purpose is staff the feeder and manage attrition.

If you sign up for the flow, you take the good with the bad. In many cases the upside for the pilot is that he can get to mainline without putting in the effort or jumping through the hoops. Also upside for those who would never get hired OTS.

Don't like it? Don't play the regional game. It is what it is.

I couldn’t care less about the required minimums.

I do care about changing the requirements almost 8 months after introduction of the program. AS managers aren’t complying with their company core values, and are moving the goal post as they see fit.

We all know why they are doing it (to staff the regionals). I just wish they implemented this program from the beginning, or started with people hired through the Parhways program from here forward.

I don’t like them NOT complying with their verbal contract. It’s disingenuous and not befitting a company with these written core values.

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Do you know how many times AA changed their flow agreements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyFlyer (Post 2798421)

Has there been a management team that hasn’t altered their “flow” or “CPP” programs without informing the pilots? Continental abruptly ended their flow leaving hundreds of Continental Express pilots hanging. When they were hired, they were told it was the last interview they would ever do... Not so much. How about the Compass pilots that were no longer offered a flow to NW/Delta after Delta sold them to TransStates. How many Eagle pilots have been left flapping in the breeze due to AA’s constant rearranging of their flow? Have you or your friends compared their situation to pilots in the CPP program at UAL? I’ve heard many a disgruntled pilot complain about that program. Do you really think your friends are experiencing a unique situation. Welcome to the airlines. I still think this should be taken to the QX boards because they’re the ones that need to hear/discuss this, not us.

To be honest, I know jack and squat about other airlines flow through programs. I’m fairly new to this game. I guess I’m just naive and thought companies would follow through on their agreements.

Silly me. Lesson learned.

This is my first time even hearing that companies do this (change their agreements mid-way through). I think it’s morally wrong. And in this case, it’s affected a few of my friends and it frustrates me on a personal level.

I know you may not care—I’m not asking for sympathy. My friends (the ones hurt by this) aren’t even asking for that. I just wanted to make sure that if a pilot hiring manager from AS looks at this thread, that they know that I think they’re pieces of sh*t and disingenuous. And I hope some wannabe AS pilots read this thread and know that the management team there is only about themselves and that they don’t practice what they preach.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF (Post 2798178)

I’m at Alaska and I have 422 hours of TPIC 🤣🤣🤣

You sold yourself short?

"Never the twain shall meet" is how most airline management operates.
Some are better than others, but the sad reality is that bean counters rule the roost.