Shocked there are so many on here living in fear. Feel kinda sorry for you.

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Would be nice to somehow negotiate the “sale” of the Longacres simulator building into this rumored Max order, say we buy 50 jets for whatever price and then ask they throw the building into the deal for $1. We are tight on simulator space and our Max sim is already out there. Boeing might just go for it to get the unneeded real estate off their books. And AS is short on simulator space as it is.

I’m just hoping I have a job in 2021. I couldn’t hold the 6-24 month leave due to seniority and lost out on some good job opportunities. Still haven’t been called in on short call this entire month.

This can’t last forever


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Agreed, I missed out on job opportunities as well, and if forced to the street it’s going to rough. I was too junior as well to hold 18-24 month line.

Did you guys bid for leave of absence , since you had good job opportunities ?

I second this ☝🏻

I saw a chart from 10/5 listing 50 university’s and reported positive cases totaling 69,444. 3 hospitalizations and 0 deaths within that group. I say let them spread it like wildfire but just keep them on campus where it can stay contained. By Christmas all will have had it and it is safe to return to visit family.

Yeah there were unpaid leaves the company would have been happy to give to award

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I think we know the answer to this one lol...

God I’m such an ingrate what was I thinking. I just should have volunteered to leave without pay [emoji2357]


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Why not for a good job opportunity? I never called you a name

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Yes a good job opportunity, even at a pay cut, would be better than risking furlough in my book. Depends on your juniority and what you think your furlough odds are.

My guess is Alaska furloughs when the first round of 6 month EILs end (March), and will continue to furlough as necessary as each EIL round expires.

Even if they expect significant demand recovery late 2021 / 2022? Vaccine's a bit of a wildcard on that.

I agree that is the vaccine programs fail to deliver herd immunity or at least a big consumer confidence boost then furloughs are likely at most majors. Does AS have flow-back to QX? :)

If true; your timing is off. With an effective date if 4/1 and training beginning much earlier they would have to furlough May 1 at the earliest. Things have to be pretty bad going into summer for them to make that move. Unless of course they cancel this bid. With that being said the EILs have to come back with a position bid and have 45 day notice. It all depends on those variables.

I made the mistake of thinking the EILs would be awarded to everyone that applied, considering the state of the industry. Also JR pilots to me were awarded the EIL and are now in my base.

But I guess I should have predicted that and applied to an LOA instead? With the same deadline for both which one would you have picked.

2020 hindsight not included of course but with internet tough guy syndrome everyone’s perfect and you would have made the perfect choice right?


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Its kind of hard to empathize with someone who is saying they had a great job opportunity but didn't take it because the company wouldn't pay them 60% of their salary to go work somewhere else. I think if someone had a great job opportunity, they'd bid for the paid leave first, then the unpaid leave second. Did you call the new employer and say, "Thanks for the great job opportunity but I make more at my current job and I couldn't hold a line that would have subsidized my pay?" Especially if you're nervous of a furlough, I would imagine you'd get your foot in the door at the new job in case your current employer may furlough you in the next year.

Yeah hindsight being perfect and all...

Of course I’m being attacked for not making the perfect choice. Now that we know the company did not award an EIL to over 10% of the pilots that asked for it. Yeah I should have chosen differently during an incredibly stressful and uncertain time. Shame on me.

I wasn’t aware that bidding for the EIL and LOA at the same time was even a possibility. Was it?

The only reason I brought this up to begin with was the asinine post about buying up even more simulators and space for the MAX. The only thing the Air Group needs are 175/195 sims. I hear they are hiring pilots at Horizon again.


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Nobody is attacking you...

Yes , it was possible to bid all different leave , including unpaid leave , in order of preference.

Fair enough, just expressing my thought that basically as the various leaves end, the furloughs will start.

The airline is doing better than many of you are giving it credit for

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Yeah they are hiring pilots again at Horizon. Oh wait...


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There is absolutely nothing that would indicate what you’re saying will happen, in fact during the call today they said the trend is good and they’re planning on being up to 80% of pre-Covid traffic by summer ‘21. Which is what the leave program is built around.
Of course things could get worse, but they can also dramatically improve, especially as fear subsided and data shows that this disease is not particularly dangerous to the vast majority of people.
In my anecdotal experiences, the Seatac seems to be quite a bit more busy lately. Flights to Mexico have been at or near restricted capacity...people are trying to get back to normal in spite of onerous government restrictions.

Time will tell, I think much will depend on how the public reacts to cases as they increase through the winter.

I'm not making any statements about scope. There's a group here that seems to thinks furloughs are eminent. They are not.

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I would put a furlough probability at 20% right now. Every indication I have received has been that we are about on target for our expected recovery.

I don’t think the company has any reason to wait for leaves to end if they wanted to furlough. EIL pilots are considered active pilots.

I didn’t realize how many eeyores we have working with us, complaining about how unfair the EIL awards went seems beyond trivial... check your 10/9 paycheck and ask yourself how many other airlines got that. Your screen name is very fitting... you’re the “new guy” seniority reigns in this industry.

I believe we’ll be the only airline (Air Group) in the country getting a profit share check for 2020.

Technically it's not profit sharing, it's performance based pay. A large part of the target calculation is based on profit which surely we will not hit, but we will probably meet some of the other targets triggering a small payout.

As far as all the "Debbie Downers" on here, unless there is a drastic downturn going into the spring/summer '21, I doubt we will see furloughs. The company got burned last time they furloughed. They lost money because they had to bring the furloughs back faster than they had estimated, costing them more for training, displacements, etc. Today it would be even worse as we have the cascading training costs of 2 fleet types (for the near future) and we will have to have the ability to come back quickly and grow coming out of this to defend market share against SWA and others to stay relevant. Based on this I think EIL's were an easy sell to the company. Compared to most in the industry, except SWA, we have a good balance sheet. We will get through this.

Like I said the only reason I chimed in to this asinine discussion was when someone mentioned buying up more MAX sims and sim buildings. We don’t need MAX sims we just need 170/190 sims for the Horizon guys.

Our flying has been constantly given away to Horizon or worse SkyWest. We have zero scope and I’m certain we will see aircraft with greater than 76 seats sooner than later.

Ask yourself this: “what are they going to replace the 700s with?”

I don’t have that much seniority and don’t believe this corporation will hesitate for a single second to furlough someone they don’t call on reserve.


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Totally agree the future here is probably 190s or the equivalent at Horizon, there’s just too much of a gap in seats between the e175 and 737-800/900. The company will exploit the lack of scope and put as many as they want at Horizon. Horizon is running new hire classes in the current environment, if that doesn’t say something I’m not sure what will. Some people probably actually believe that Horizon getting RNP certification for southeast is just for diversions, give me a break.
I also agree with you that the company is not going to tolerate paying pilots to be sitting on reserve not flying or out on leaves for very long.

Thursday, Alaska spokesperson Bobbie Egan updated that projection, saying that by next summer the airline’s active workforce, which today stands at about 22,000, will “likely be between 19,000 and 20,000.”

“It would be our hope that our extended leave programs would reduce or eliminate the need for furloughs,” Egan added. “If they are not able to, then furloughs would be on the table.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...'s%20fleet.

Read it twice. Then call me Eeyore again...

37 MAX 9s on order 30 options for MAX 9s. Nothing to replace the 700s...

The two of you said 6 months ago we would already have furloughed people but instead the company was one of the first to offer IL’s meanwhile our coworkers at other airlines have been furloughed or agreed to TA’s that cut their credit by half to mitigate a furlough. Maybe we do furlough but in the meantime you’re still here, still working, still getting paid your full credit and yet you whine. We get it you wanted to stay home and get paid 50 hours who wouldn’t it’s an amazing deal that’s probably once in our careers but to say the system is unfair because you supposedly had a good job lined up and we’re going to get to do some double dipping and then it didn’t happen is pretty disingenuous of what’s really going on. Everybody here wants scope unfortunately that’s not going to happen for awhile but spouting off nonsense about how they’re getting rid of 700’s and not replacing them and oooo 195’s are coming to Horizon... wait til it happens until then it’s just useless crying.

You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth. Changing careers takes time. The difference between an EIL and LOA is massive. I never said a peep about fair. I just said that it’s a shame furloughs are being talked about again for next year. I lost a job opportunity due to the company not awarding EILs to the pilots that applied despite there being a 45 day return clause. Hindsight being 2020 should I have taken the LOA, absolutely. Repeated company messaging about far more awards than posted will be offered got me. My bad.

It’s also odd that because of the way they were bid and the system bid that followed immediately after there are pilots jr to me that are on an EIL, in my base. I thought seniority was everything but I have a mixed 91/121/135 background and it seems like there is an exception to every rule. But you’re the one touting seniority and how I’m jr...

The company lost 431 million last quarter, despite nearly 400 million in payroll protection money. Cash burn zero isn’t happening without some massive changes.


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I totally understand Newguy for being worried about being at the bottom ,and no longer have the opportunity, to look for job when not a lot pilots were looking. I didn’t mean to pick on you when I asked if you bid for LOA . Hope nobody gets furlough , all the best .

Changing careers takes time you say? Well you’ve already said you were a trained EMT prior to this so you’ve done it already once so what’s so difficult about doing it again? Surely you’ve learned how to do it. Secondly you said that you expected QOL to be degraded big time due to Covid which isn’t wrong and then you posted that you were going to bid for all lengths of EIL’s. Going back through all your post history it paints all the picture I need to see. You’re not happy here, you’re not happy with how the EIL’s were awarded but the fact is they were awarded in seniority order per base. What can you be mad about? Honestly? You’re just mad you didn’t get your way fine but don’t sit here and complain that the company did something wrong. I get it you wanted an EIL to go get some “good job” and double dip and you couldn’t, well if it’s so bad here just quit and go be an EMT again there’s plenty of jobs in that field and that’s coming from someone who’s on an EIL and got a couple different jobs and quit them immediately. There’s almost nothing as good as being a pilot even on Alaska’s worst day sitting short call PM reserve getting called out for red eyes. If that sounds so awful to you maybe find another career.

Cruz, Spouting Horizon Air now at Alaska Airlines glee club bs is overrated. You sound like a legacy brat. There are many places and many things better than drilling holes in the sky for Alaska Airlines, especially at 2am.
Simple truth is and has always been that Alaska Airlines is a good job when things are bad and a lousy job when things are great.....And happy happy is not a requirement...Come to work, grind it out and go home. Furloughs are as likely as not.

I left QX for SKW then got called to AS. Wasn’t my first choice but damn glad that it worked out the way it did. Def not a legacy brat either just stating the obvious here, it’s a damn good job and we’re all lucky to have what we have.