How does the 900Max do in DCA/SNA/LIH/OGG and other similar airports

I’d imagine DCA/SNA just fine since I’ve seen 900’s in there and if the route isn’t a transcon it should be fine. As far as Hawaii markets I’ve heard it’s probably not going to work but who really knows. I’m sure the Max 8 will work just fine and Ben himself said they’re looking at the Max 7 which works in all of Hawaii just fine so maybe we use them on those niche routes with short runways.

It’s a Max 9 or a -9... and it will be able to fly full out of SNA to SEA and Mexico, fly full 95% of the time out of OGG, full out of DCA about 85% of the time.

Guys this is embarrassing, “how about the XLR’s”, “how about the 30 positions”, “how about this airport, how about that.” We ran the numbers, there is no hidden Airbus surprise order. They are all gone, there was a lot of research, a lot of time put into the decision. It’s done. None of you have the unthought question to talk management back into the bus. This decision has been done for 20 months, there will be no looking back, only forward.

MAX 8 does awesome out of all HI markets... LIH is the only Airport that gives the 9 some trouble.

The bottom 2 LA Capts displaced to ANC is just the beginning. As the Buses fade out, the true effect of the SLI will be felt by the senior side VX group (an effect which has largely been negligible in SFO and LAX). Just napkin math but it seems relative seniority is almost twice as bad in SEA and PDX as it would be in 737 LAX for the seniors. The only saving grace at this point would be if SFO opens as a Boeing base. That looks very unlikely. If that doesn’t happen and both SFO and LAX Buses close, where will they go? Closest base is 737 LAX and also the best in terms of relative seniority. I see a scenario where there’s tons of displacements out of LAX 737 as the Buses are reduced and guys force their way in. LAX could easily become the most senior base in terms of bidding action over the next 4 years.

No question that single fleet will reduce pilot staffing. When we ditched the 737-200 and the MD 80 it was a 13% reduction in staffing. With the Airbus it will likely be 6-7%. Couple that with the loss of a base and we should be fairly stagnant for a few years. The impact of the SLI is going to hit hard for both sides.

It came down to pride and price. Performance and passenger satisfaction were never a factor. Maxxes are dirt cheap and we have no plans to ever operate outside of its envelope...

Did anyone pick up on ST or BM stating something along the lines as, now since the mainlines fleet is complete we will focus on the regional fleet plan starting in January? Then they went on to quickly comment on the large gap of 76 seats to 159 seats.
That's what caught my attention.

Horizon will probably end up with E190/195s, to go along with more 175s, they’ll likely keep the dash 8 for some of the routes that may not support jet service. Skywest may get some as well if they can make it work and not violate their agreements with their other partners.
The Alaska pilot group is going to regret the lack of scope in the contract.
Unless the options on their new Max order are exercised the next five years will see no growth at the mainline level. I doubt that will be the case at Horizon and Skywest.

QX will never get 195’s. Alaska plans to close SFO as a base, that is a mess, everyone will be fine in the end. I have my fingers crossed they walk that back, I have voiced my opinion to the powers that be. I think we will see 17-26 Max 7’s. PBS + Single Fleet is about a 13% savings in pilots. That could slow things down to fall of 2023. We will take every option of this order. Lots of hiring 24-26, lots of upgrades. Wish it were right now, it’s a pretty tough industry currently. Things will get better, we will all be fine. Merry Christmas, bring on 2021!

Merry Christmas indeed! 2021, bring on the blue skies and the tailwind!

With an 8 year DOH windfall I reckon the senior VX group will be just fine...the junior Boeing captains in LAX? Maybe not so much...

Not to be pedantic but the FOM prohibits the 900s from flying into SNA. I'm pretty sure the reason is noise abatement since the 900s are not prohibited form BUR or DCA.

It’s a MAX 9... It has different performance numbers then a 900ER... Hard to believe I know. It can fly 500 miles further too🤫.

There is honestly no need for a MAX 9 to fly into BUR or SNA, the efficiencies are realized in greater amounts the further it flies. Pretty sure 800NG will be sufficient for SNA and BUR.... DCA will see MAX 9’s and so will OGG

Not sure if you're replying to me but no sh@&. FYI the 9Max, with all its different performance, is prohibited from SNA too. Like I said, its probably because of noise abatement not performance.

The A321 is also prohibited from SNA🤔
I guess, I don’t see your point. When you say something, say something that means something.

OTZ, I know you are a max fan. It has longer legs than it’s predecessor and that is about it. Its runway performance-both in the take-off and landing arena is still poor. The 321NEO in every sense is the far superior airplane. Alaska Airlines did not need/does not need and has no plans for an airplane with its capacity/range and performance. You and I both knew the day we bought them they were gone. Our business model does not support an airplane like that.

Even in the economic sense?

Probably not at the price we got these Max orders?

Yes. If your business model supports it. Ours does not. We do not haul high value passengers. Period. We are an upscale tourist airline. We do not provide value to business customers. We are very much a regional airline....As in the Pacific Northwest Region. The Max is purpose built for cheap, tourist class travel. It can never have a real first class or business class. It provides a cramped, noisy uncomfortable travel experience for 45 minutes longer than an NG.
Going all Max9 will drive profitability much higher. Allows Alaska to have all the messy short haul and mid con in the 76-130 seat market handled by very inexpensive lift providers.
Alaska is brilliant in that they provide the illusion of an experience so well that passengers are willing to pay a little more for it.

The MAX is built for exactly the same market as the NEO and the customer experience is virtually the same. Neither is a wide-body experience...
Branson was the master of illusions, got his employees to work at a 40% discount and be happy about it.

Wrong on both accounts. But “if it feels good do it”....Of course it is not a widebody...Just wider, taller, better insulation, sound deadening, mid cabin lavs....None of which add a dime to Alaska Airlines wallet. Or is valued by Alaska Airlines passengers. The nax has been the choice from day one and the right choice. Buy the tools to do the job you do...Easy....There never was “painstaking research” done on fleet decisions. More spin for the illusion. The chinaflue helped with the pricing on orphan airframes for sure...Good for Alaska Airlines

It has a slightly wider tube, “sound deadening” ok...let’s see a study dB’s in the cabin. Seat pitch mostly determines pax comfort, that depends on the operator. As a pax the airbus has always felt cheaper and more flimsy in its construction...I can’t offer empirical evidence. For all of it’s “superior performance” why is it I never saw a NEO above the low 30’s flying to hawaii pre-covid. Finally, I guess you’re right I can’t prove the vxr’s were happy making 40% below industry standard wages.

Hard to say what made them happy...I am sure most are happy for the job they have. Likely most are equally unimpressed by our decades old concessionary contract....
Alaska Airlines made the correct choice for Alaska Airlines. That will likely lead to reasonable employment stability. Which is really all that anyone can hope for...As always, Alaska Airlines is a crappy job in good times and a great job in bad times.

stop showing your ignorance, you are embarrassing yourself.

Ha, yup huge windfall. Single digit to 600+ on the list. Yup, huge windfall.

In fairness, at least you still have a job. I doubt VX would have survived this long into covid.

Biz travel is nil, LA, SFO, and NYC are some of the hardest hit by the pandemic and associated lockdowns and travel restrictions.

As far as I know, Jetblue is doing just fine. And that's where they'd be.

Oh look...another bitter lottery winner!

If you you were a Captain you got an $80/hr raise, 40-50% from your non-union, industry wage subversive “agreement”. Please stop your *****’in.

Guess what, everyone at Alaska got a substantial pay raise from the JCBA too.
Grow up.

Just curious...how much seniority should you be entitled too at the company that acquired your financially inferior former employer? Your 10 years should be equivilent to 35+, sorry but that’s flatly absurd and everyone knows it. DOH is the only just integration, the rest is just lawyering...and AS alpa dropped the ball, big time!

Not really, the acquisition and resulting arbitrated JCBA were a management canard against legacy AS pilots. We were not allowed to negotiate. So yeah, we got a raise...but once again the company avoided negotiations.

Judging by Alaska's contract history, including our current one, negotiations weren't historically AS ALPA's strong suit anyway. (Not talking about our current union leadership)

It’s a lot stronger than a group with no alpa contract.

Where is this bitterness coming from? The purchase and integration is years old. Are you trying to divide the pilots? Are you a management mole?

Glad to see that we are getting our festivus airing of grievances out of the way. That's all this fuselage tube measuring contest is going to accomplish.

C’mon people ... the merger happened. It has been less than ideal for all parties involved. Let’s be professionals and move on in solidarity.


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Reality is that the”merger” is going to occur when we become one fleet in the next couple years.

VX was ALPA, they were on the industry standard trajectory for a startup airline.

More fairness... the raise was largely offset by degraded (industry substandard) workrules, especially for the commuters.

Still more fairness... all of the LCC's got similar payscales within a couple years of SLI so there's no reason to expect that ALPA VX wouldn't have achieved the same.

As an objective observer it was a rough wash for both sides, with VX commuters suffering the most. Silver lining for all was a larger airline, the better to survive covid and compete with the big boys.

That's not what my gut says, and I was a fan of VX. Best case, they would have survived with .gov aid and then wind up on the ropes in 2021/2022.