Attrition?
 

What is the attrition like at Alaska?

Someone on another thread mentioned new-hires leaving during Indoc and during training. I assume that these are pilots that took the first offer that came their way and are leaving when something better comes through.

How many 2-4 yr FOs are leaving?

Until Alaska has trouble attracting and retaining pilots, costing them money in training costs and cancelled flights, there’s no motivation for them to change the way they do things.

There isn’t much attrition, just over 40 for the year, mostly junior folks leaving for better opportunities

???
How can that be the case if things are as bad as you guys say?

Well then, you guys better hope that self-help is a viable option. You are too far behind to get the improvements you seek with out it, IMO.

When I was there, we made it to mediation, once, years ago. Negotiations in mediation stalled and the pilots asked to be released for the 30-day cooling-off period. The mediator denied the request, saying that the two sides were too close in their positions, that he wanted both sides to go off and settle it. IMO, the pilots did not ask for enough and were too close to what management was offering. In effect the pilots shot themselves in the foot and took away any leverage that they might have had through self-help. The Union always wanted to appear reasonable in the eyes of a mediator or arbitrator. The problem with reasonable is that if you start negotiations with reasonable, you settle for less than reasonable.

good luck
You guys and gals are going to need it

for me winning isn’t, you do.

As of December 1st, 38 have resigned in 2021. 36 FO's and 2 CA. If we have 3000 pilots that would be roughly 1.2% of the pilot group.

Or more accurately, 15-20% of new hires

Give it six months and then post the numbers. I’m guessing attrition will be triple what 2021 was; excluding new hires showing up to indoc.

What is happening in 4 months?

Just double the numbers. Not triple. ;)

Not likely to be an attention-getter at headquarters. It usually all works in their favor…Further delays on 737 deliveries, a buyer for more of the 320 fleet. Senior dudes checkin out…Staffing ends up perfect…They have lots of 4-leaf clover over at Angle Lake

Please explain how shrinking market share and high turnover is lucky.

Currently about halfway through initial, and 3 of my classmates have departed for other carriers. Class started with 19 pilots I believe.

You need to stop believing that you work for an airline….The boutique investment firm that you work for makes a ton of dough…Only sometimes by behaving like a traditional airline…

I don't care how profitable the loyalty program is. Eventually if there's no destination market behind the points, people will leave. And the revenue with it.

Perhaps it's too long term for some people to imagine. Like climate change.

Reserves are getting hammered right now. Extended into off days is becoming the norm. Staffing is far from perfect. Some of this is COVID related, but we are far from properly staffed. People will continue to leave, and I’d expect those percentages to increase.

Low Timers
 

I’ve been flying with quite a few FOs who are moving on to Alaska. When I asked what kind of hours they had I was shocked. Some right at 2,000TT getting picked up now 😳

Military? Other than that, I question the reliability of your post. I'm an IP and have rarely worked with anyone close to those mins.

Don’t worry, I imagine you will be soon enough.

Not even talking about credit cards….Your last paragraph kinda says it all though doesn’t it…

Thise numbers look so low, until you realize that idiots here walk around and pretend it’s a legacy airline. How many people at real legacy’s are actually leaving?
compare those numbers.
this place is pathetic.

I don’t think anyone is pretending this is a legacy after the last week.


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The lack of leadership at the executive level makes it painfully obvious that this airline is nowhere near a legacy. BM & JL have been in hiding. Haven't heard a peep from either one. We got one worthless E-Mail from CVM and another one from SD about a week ago - one day after the MEC sent out a comm expressing disappointment in management's mishandling the whole snow event meltdown. Angle Lake is reactive. They've always been reactive and one shouldn't expect them to change their ways. They are content with their "business plan" and they are way too stubborn to change for the better.

this ^

filler

It is a legacy, the definition is clear and simple and includes HAL and AS... grandfathered basically. All of the legacies also have regional feed. I think none of the other majors have regional feed.

Unlike the others, AS is also a niche LCC, and not a global player.

Maybe the legacy title makes some folks feel good, but it doesn't offer any extra pay or benefits :rolleyes:

It’s a west coast Sun Country

You still haven't said anything. You just mope about the inevitability of how powerless the pilots are here, which is a key ingredient in the self-fulfilling prophecy of why the pilot QOL is so substandard.

It's embarrassing.

No, Sun Country has a better contract.

…until they buy you

Powerless has never been uttered by me…We certainly do have all the power… We certainly choose to never use it. At least you and I do. I have spent 23 years doing everything that ALPA is afraid to ask us to do. I assume that you have too…Judging by our success you and I must be the only two that do. If the other 2800 would start doing those things we would wield a large stick at the “table”. What will never get us that “stick” is pilot shortages, attrition, legacy hiring etc…For an “airline” like Alaska, those are phantom conditions that don't exist. Or at least not in the last 23 years.

This...exactely

Is it true that we’ve had 9 pilots resign since the beginning of the year?

Yes, the number was at 9 as of January 5th.

According to the podcast 9 as of January 5. Podcast was recorded the 7th. Or released the 7th. But they said in the podcast it was 9 gone for the period of January 1-5.


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May be just the beginning. Given the status quo, and hiring/retirements at the big three + FDX, the math favors leaving if you're under age 55 and are not a line-holding CA.

If you're under 40, I think the math says leave, period.

* Unless you're totally adverse to short-term furlough risk in the interest of long-term gain. Or absolutely must drive to work in PDX.

It’s true, I’m one of them. Can’t wait to leave this dumpster fire regional, it was a complete waste of time. End of the month I’m done.

Congrats for escaping the asylum. I'm envious.

Thanks, it wasn’t the initial plan but it’s not going to get any better any time soon (years probably). I Wish you all the best, and for those that can get out, now is the time. This is your year!!

Truth!
Only if I was 20 years younger.

Best of luck to you at your new job.

Im a line holding CA under 55 and I’m considering leaving. Pulling the trigger on a $160+/hr pay cut makes me sick though. I commute from the east coast and this airline has completely destroyed my quality of life.

Dec 15 to Jan 3 I had 1 full day at home.

If you plan on commuting at this airline, I’d seriously reconsider. My only hope is a merger with anyone other than Hawaiian. Rest assured, If I leave it will happen shortly thereafter.

Since you seem to be into math and I’ve been looking at the 2021 W2 numbers with envy:

What say you for a 45 year old with 4 years in at AS. Switching to United sometime this year?

How big will the pay hit be? How long to catch up?

Would live in base in either SEA or SFO.


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