I see your point, I just don't think it applies here because I was referencing being okay with the document proposal from the union. Not floating my own values and what I feel is or isn't acceptable, just what was already publicly posted by the union just several months ago.

 

The guy agitates just to agitate. At least OTZ is entertaining. Let me guess… Ad Hominem?

 

Actually no you don't

How about being OK with the current Union guidance to NOT say on a public forum what you are Ok with accepting

It really shouldn't be that hard to understand for someone as intelligent as you right?

 

You're a smart guy. Enough with the numbers.

 

Shy is not that far off with his ratio though. If you look at JBs ratio of Emb to Airbus pay he was actually being a bit generous with the .7

 

I think they're saying stop referencing being happy with the number in the union's proposal as it's basically obsolete given the way things are going. All boats are being lifted atm.

 

If the company agreed to our proposal 100% today, it would hopefully be shot down in a vote. The only negotiations happening now should be how much in addition to our openers are needed to pass. It's been made very clear that we aren't shooting for the moon. AS management again blew an opportunity to save a few bucks and pretend to want to get back in the good graces of our pilot group. We would have had a TA by now if management wasn't looking for another "deal."

 

Maybe they're hoping for a Hail Mary in the form of a catastrophic economic meltdown?

 

Problem is saying one wants 450/hr now because Horizon is 215/hr is an emotional response (and it also undermines the union). It's a mentally accepted concept that regional pay was about 45-55% of mainline rates (129/hr vs 266/hr). So 450-500/hr is an emotional response not based on any EFA. That's an argument based on straight ratio up, it doesn't make you right and someone else wrong. Regional airlines should never have been worse than 65~75% of mainline pay. It's wrong that it got as bad as it did.


There's also a wild card in that we are first. Therein lies the problem. The big 3 have not had new payrates (except United's TA which was turned down). It looks like we'll be the guinea pigs. As long as we get a caveat for industry adjustment after [insert X time] at certain intervals that compares our rates to the new payrates established at the big 3 and adjusts accordingly, it should mitigate that problem.

 

Here's a news flash, every decision is emotional.
Even something as mundane as choosing left vs. right around a thunderstorm has an emotional final call.

I'd argue that your defending of modest gains in a surging market is even more emotional. It's an exercise of ego to stay committed to previous predictions when everything is surpassing it.

You are correct, if Alaska goes first, there won't be a measuring stick to gauge what a narrow body pilot is worth.

We will have to determine it for ourselves. What are you worth, Shy?