For the no votes, what do you envision?

Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.


And then what direction do you envision them taking? I don’t know how many no votes we have. But say 51% vote no. That’s something like 1,300 voices that are not happy. What do these 1,300 want and expect for the next time around? Rsv 13 days off? Hourly rate 306 to 320? Full retro? What if you get none? Or just 1? Or 2? Where is your line drawn for how good this TA gets improved that you vote yes?


The ALPA EFA team worked with our NC team and they fully painted a picture of the economic and financial picture - it’s their job!


I have yet to hear a good reason why a no voter thinks 6 months from now makes for a good negotiating environment. Yeah Delta voted their TA1 down in 2015 and got a new one a short while later. But 2015 and 2016 were great years for the economy (minus the one dip in the DOW and S&P). We are nowhere near that sort of economy. This administration and Powell have made it CLEAR they will raise interest rates and control crash this economy to a landing (they aren’t even saying soft landing any more). Another raise in November. Another in Q1. And then hold that level (maybe even more raises) until inflation decreases and demand dampens, and *hope* that supply chains open up (like China not doing zero Covid policy, Ukraine v Russia gets better, etc). We are literally headed off the cliff in terms of a good environment to negotiate. I genuinely ask what sort of leverage do you see to get whatever it is that would get you to vote yes to this in a TA#2. I think we can all agree no scenario makes 3300 pilots happy. I question what is enough to make the no pilots happy in round 2 during the worst economy to negotiate in.

prdu you’ll call me defeatist, I call it realist after looking at the economic conditions we face and considering that the EFA vetted our current deal.

Wasn't bashing. Just restating things you said previously and they dont really help overall at times. If you really are an advocate for pilots being educated and making the right decision for them and their families, just encourage that idea. I agree some people need to hear the tough comments, but everyone needs to get the information from valid sources. Bashing your head against the wall is understandable, just as alpa has done after some of your back and forth. We need to help each other with information. Not pound our chest at who is right or wrong or point the finger at people for stupid comments. This would be a great tool to help educate and gain information, but most of the BS on here is embarrassing for all pilots and pilot groups.

No vote doesn't mean you have to recall anyone. You can, but its not a requirement.

Same… Yup, I can 100% confirm that this is 100 percent correct. I heard everyone is leaving now. If this passes everyone will leave. I know ALPA did extensive polling, it was all wrong, company spent big bucks trying to decide what would allow us to move forward, all their info is bad. Me and my friends actually have the good info, if this passes, everyone leaves.😂🤭🙄

There's some uncertainty as to how it would play out post-No. I'd like to hear from folks who have lived that before.

Agree the union guys are top shelf, can't think of anyone better by a long shot.

They can also resign, either out of frustration or just a feeling that they've taken it as far as they can.

Then what? Not a rhetorical question, seeking constructive thoughts.

Obviously need to ask the union guys what THEY think will happen post-No. They voted for this thing unanimously...

Absolute “Top Shelf” and we have the angry 30 here that know everything, taking potshots. The same successful angry group that has never got anything right in their own lives, we should trust them, right?🙄🙄🙄

Just in conversations I have had, two are willing to just be done and probably are done either way (yes or no that is). Understandable as any alpa position is tough (especially as a volunteer on your days off). What then, would be to find someone willing to volunteer and then interviews and start up again. The devil really is in the details on this one. Just an example, but most probably expected a retro to be on average 40k more than what they are going to receive. Speaking strictly about a 12 year CA......a pilot at that level will earn 200k more over the next 3 years with the new work rules. Would you rather have the extra 40k now and maybe not get scope, work rules, flexibility, etc.... Or would you rather get the extra 200k over the next three years????? This shouldn't be the only deciding factor, but just one more thing to take into consideration.

15 year Captain. I’m leaving.

We're all professionals (supposedly) here. Don't be getting upset over the criticism of the TA. People have legitimate concerns just as much as you want to sing it's praises. Take a break from APC OTZ.

You know what I always tell my kids, you follow a loser you will be a loser. Emulate successful people, follow successful people and 99 time out of 100, you to will be successful!