I stated reasons why money won’t fix attrition. Your counter is not many people think like me. Pilots have options now moreso than ever before. The big 3 represent the most bases, the most widebodies, the most OPTIONS for a pilot, the most retirements, the most fastest movement up the seniority list. But wait, I don’t know how other pilots think. Youngsters must love coming to this place for that secret sauce. Let’s get real. What do pilots pick their airlines on in THIS market? Stability, bases, fleet variety, pay, seniority movement, more retirements, schedules/QOL. What else? Sentimental value of a certain place, sure. I’ve flown with a couple guys where AS was their dream airline. You have not once countered the reasons young pilots sub 3-5 yrs would leave. Your assertion is pay will stop them, with a proof of “it’s ever been tried before at Alaska so let’s try it.”

I think the bean counters know it won’t work. Their goal will be to keep the attrition at an acceptable level - whatever level that may be. As long as that’s the case…

There will be magic, you will definitely snap. I think flexibility is about to change significantly by late spring next year. 787🤔… A lot of research has gone into that aircraft to do nothing. When…well that is the question. I think, HA is kinda the leaning direction. If it happens this fall though, I mean honestly, it will take two years to fully integrate, and I would expect a 3-5 year fence CA only on the wide bodies. So let’s say, in the right seat of a 787 summer of 2026.

I’d write out the reasons, but it’ll be met with “humble brag!” So why bother?

The normal response by you. It’s coming. Until it’s not. Give it a few weeks and you’ll say it fell through. You’ve lost all credibility. Just spewing rumors until one sticks.

Culture. Destinations. Type of flying.

These categories Alaska hits the sweet spot for many. Throw in more money to be comfortable in a California base and suddenly recruitment isn't such an issue.

Recruit more. Suddenly staffing is better and QOL goes up for everyone.

Money is the first domino of a virtuous circle.

I didn't take you to be a koolaid drinker, but here is the famous aviation C word. Culture? I signed up for a cool culture airline with no ties. Oh wait, that's gone. But, culture!

AA, DL, UA. More or less, you'd fit in just fine. Since you sound serious, specifically what culture do you find at AS that is more attractive than the big 3? And please don't say "friendly crews and a family atmosphere."


With the exception of inter-Alaska state routes, literally anything in the 48 states that AS does is easily replicated at the big 4.


Same 737s flying the same routes at the big 4. "Type of flying" is actually an argument against AS.

How? How substantially different is AS 737 SEA vs DL 737 SEA? Or UAL SFO 737 vs AS SFO 737? You're acting as if AS has a unicorn airplane found at no other airline flying to cities that no one else goes to.



And your point actually brings up an excellent counterpoint. The reason upgrade time is still long here (compared to the big 3) is because we ONLY have one fleet. When you want to be CA there is no other choice.

You say "type of flying." Well guess what, if domestic 737 is literally all the flying you want, then going to the big 3 and doing 737 or A320 flying is going to give you an enormous seniority boost. The ultra senior competition is on the widebodies. If you are willing to fly domestic routes you'll be king in seniority on narrowbody CA at the big 3 long term. Whereas here at AS, you have 30 yr guys flying the same plane as you - because they have no other higher paying equipment to go to. So this is actually yet another reason to go to the big 3, regardless of what pay is. You automatically get a seniority boost if you are willing to slug it out on domestic narrowbody at the big 3 for a career.

Today SWA was denied the next step in the RLA process and the two parties are miles apart. This will delay any in contract snap to September 2024. As far as 787s go they will likely need a lot of Alaska Airlines colors at the paint shops:

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/h...t-b787-storage

It's understandable that you'd summarily dismiss all that I've mentioned, as they do not compute for you. But yes, culture. It might not be as cool as Virgin, but the echoes of that airline remain. I'm still able to get entire crews out for dinner from time to time. I hear that's not an option at the big 3.

Yes, the 737 has the same routes at the big 4. But those routes are divided over many different bases at the big 4. At Alaska, the 737 goes everywhere from everywhere. You can fly to all points in the lower 49 + Latin America from all of our bases. 50+ from SEA or ANC. You will not see that sort of destination diversity from a single base and a single fleet anywhere else.

And the variety in type of flying on a singular fleet is unparalleled. You want 6 hours 1 and done? We've got it. You want short hops and 1 time zone? We've got it. The big 3 offer very specialized route structures based on the equipment. Here, you can pick and choose.


So yes, Alaska has lots of things going for it that could attract newbies. The only thing that is missing to make this place a forever home is the paycheck.

Some things to differentiate Alaska from all other major airlines:

1) Only major airline to have all pilot bases in one time zone and within 50( give or take) miles from the ocean.
2) Only single fleet major airline with regional outsourcing.
3) Only single fleet major airline to outsource 35-50% of all departures to regional subcontractors.
4) Only major passenger airline to fly dedicated, converted cargo aircraft.

Your claim is 660 pilots changed the culture of the other 2,000? I don't see it. You can also go out with entire crews at the big 3 - from time to time.

So how is that a selling point? First, Delta 737s leave SEA and LAX and go throughout their system, including SLC, DTW, ATL. Similarly for SFO UAL 737. Once it leaves, you could be gone east coast and not come back until day 4. Or stick with west coast trips. And how is that a selling point? You can bid just about any airplane at the big 3 and do just about any flying you want to do. This is some serious level kool aid drinking if you think our 737s and routes are somehow special. I'll give you inter-Alaska state flying as being unique. Other than that, you have all the variety you could possibly want at the big 3 on all fleets, including the B737 and the A320 (something we don't have anymore).


You can also pick and choose at the big 3 - AND they already have PBS which means they can really nail down the kind of trips/pairings they want. Unlike here! I can't believe I'm reading someone talk up the 737 route structure.

You're not being genuine. I've seen buddies at DL and UA who are doing 737 trips and it's everything. There is nothing special with AS 737 route structure. You could argue ALL our Hawaii flying is on the 737s whereas at the big 3 it is spread between the 737, A321, 757, 767, 777, and 787. But unlike Alaska, the big 3 actually gives them a chance to bid those planes. Selling a single fleet limited to 5 west coast bases over the big 3? :rolleyes: And I am the one who gets accused of being management material.

Sorry, the only conclusion I can draw is you are chalking up a big game about choosing AS over the big 3 in the vain hope of getting Delta money on Sept 1.