No arguments there. One thing I would also say is that the OP lives a very short drive to one of our juniormost domiciles which is also an ETOPS domicile and a lot of our Hawaii flying is indeed like a mini-vacation.

I would have opted for SW myself (I had the choice) but I didn't know they were about to open LAX for ETOPS.

Pilots are still leaving Alaska for SWA post contract at Alaska and pre SWA contract. Enough said. Better pay, flexibility, days off, vacation. List goes on and on. And it’s about to get a whole lot better

You sure about that? I believe the better flexibility for sure but better pay? Considering snap up you guys are singlehandedly dragging the industry down on pay. We had to completely throw away SWA out of our snap calculation to keep our pay competitive with our peers.

That's wrong, I'm looking right at the numbers.

If you had said "Pilot", singular without the "s" on the end you'd be correct. Presumably a non-west coaster who lives in a SW base, and you can't blame him/her for that.

Not for lack of trying dude. You can't make management show up and give you an industry leading contract. Our contract language was written decades ago and we have hundreds of outstanding grievances based on "past practice napkin agreements" that nobody knows anything about. The reason we're taking so long is we are working on a complete rewrite so that both sides KNOW what the language is and what the intent is. It's a lot easier slapping a Flex-Seal pay rate sticker on something currently written like you did (which if we're trashing airlines....you all f'd up with accepting rates that didn't even cover inflation which snowballed into Delta, American, and United doing the same).

It's a fact that we work harder than any other 737 operator on the planet and we will be compensated justly for it or there will be no deal. If that affects your "snap up average"....IDGAF. This is a once in a generation shot to make lasting changes that will affect us for the rest of our careers and rushing it so some AK pilot gets another 1% isn't even on our radar.

Amen brother…24 almost 25 years in at the Eskimo. We have never bothered to fix much of anything…..Pay rates and now pbs which does not fix anything. Our contract is essentially unchanged. With our incredible unity, in a market where we could have burned the book and started over we voted for pay-rates(without snap-up) with a weak market adjustment sentence…..and pbs……and the word “scope”….Take as long as it takes…This opportunity only comes around once in a lifetime……We squandered ours. Our market rate adjustment that gave us our payrates was not contractual….It was a gift. And pbs will not fix the toxic, pilot hating stew that drives every decision Alaska Airlines makes. While SWA may be venturing in to a similar management mindset, they are rank amateurs. Alaska’s special brand is as old as the airline itself.

I dunno man maybe come back and beat your chest on another airlines forum, AFTER you’ve fixed your payscale and gotten a retro check to not only make up for the money lost over time but inflation as well. Until then I’d be a lot more quiet about being the hardest working pilot group with the outdated contract and pay scale.

Good luck. We’re all counting on you.

Its a AK vs WN thread so I’d say my opinion is valid as a WN Cap’n.

The payscale will be fixed and compounding retro is what we’re asking for.

We were one of the first airlines to sign in 2016 so I’m fine being last and letting everyone else slowly raise the bar. Had mgt signed our rewrite in 2020 we’d be so far behind now.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Up until this year we’d only had around 500 quit to OAL’s in the company’s history. Up to 267 this year alone.

It’s a fact we fly more at work than anyone else. No reason to keep a lid on it. If you work more than your peers, you should be paid more for it. If you’re lucky, next year your last snap up will be a good one.

“Contract unchanged”



We got that stinking thing called scope. You know, the thing you avoided for years. So now that you have it, I could see the view look that it feels like no change. The industry average up this year was modified (your “gift” isn’t really a gift, it’s dealing with a reality for recruitment and retention). $340.25 which is within 1% of the big 3. PBS will make it easier to get certain days off and get a line with more of the types of trips you want. As it is, you get to use your 25 yrs seniority to double dip in the seniority game for 1st and 2nd step, and then free for all 3rd step. At that point you’re basically PBSing your line.

It’s ok to fear change. That’s seems to be the mantra for a lot against PBS for those who haven’t used it.


“Toxic pilot hating stew.”

25 yrs at AS, respectfully, what other airlines have you worked at? Browsing Delta forums (especially that Ed bastion one), Southwest forum, AA, and you’ll see pilots who are convinced their management is terrible and hates pilots.