Airline Pilot Central Forums - AS vs SWA: WWYD?

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- - AS vs SWA: WWYD? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/alaska/144964-vs-swa-wwyd.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 3714314)

These are all great points. A bunch of my SWA buddies have shared their bid awards, and then shared the actual month of flying they actually did, after all the scheduling adjustment magic you can do at SWA. In most cases, the final lines looked almost nothing like the initial awards, which is a good thing. That's a huge plus for me. Not because I don't want to work, but because the ability to significantly alter one's awarded line by moving around days off, is a huge QoL benefit in my opinion m

One of the forum members here was kind enough to send me a bid packet for AS/ SFO. In looking at the typical lines, honestly all I really am hoping to have, is the ability to move like one trip a month to different days. Simply because that would allow me to create longer periods of time off, followed of course by longer periods of intense work. At my current shop it's literally impossible to move a local to a different day.

The current state of the pilot/ management labor relationship at SWA is also, naturally, reason for concern. But on the other hand, reading these threads, it doesn't look like the contract negotiations at AS were a lot of fun either. I saw that video of your COO staring down the picketing pilots (yikes). I suppose all of these negotiations can get a bit performative, though, and probably bear little relationship to actual life on the line. But it sounds like y'all have a more cordial dynamic with management now?

If current management feelings are a concern, then don't go read the Delta forums... or the American forums... Or any forums...

Been here 5 years, while it's not all roses, I don't interact with management. I make my schedule work for me through various means and no-one bothers me.

I guarantee our contract will be good. The group is too ****ed off to accept anything subpar and the union is fighting a good fight.

But go where you WANT to go, not where someone on a message board who has no bearing on your life makes facts that may or may not be true.

My buddy spent 2.5yrs at AS before going to SWA. From what I gather, he liked the legacy feel and longer routes at AS, but the flexibility, days off and pay are better at SWA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 3714314)

as of right now with line, bidding after the bids are awarded, we do this thing called step trading where you can try to trade trips in and out, but it favors senior pilots over junior pilots so your luck with trading trips during step trading would be low until you get some seniority

But PBS is around the corner in April and then you soon enough to hold the block of days off you want it’ll be yours

So I’d say as a junior line holder, your flexibility will be minimal unless you can get lucky in the third step, where it’s first come first serve and not seniority based. Open time is first come first serve and depends on reserve coverage for moving days around with open time right now Sfo staffing is good but it’s all reserved dependent

Then, obviously, once we get PBS things will be different

The only thing worse than flying a 737, is doing it for more legs with shorter turns...

SWA's basing and schedule flexibility are fantastic. AS can't hold a candle to that. But if you can live in base with AS and you don't like doing 5 leg days, it might be a better fit. At the end of the day, both places would be great career airlines if you don't want to fly widebody and international.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinRest (Post 3714401)

5 leg days at SWA are rare. It’s 2-3 with a 4 legger thrown in a couple trips a month. The RIGs at SWA are fantastic

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfandflows (Post 3714504)

5 leg days at SWA are rare. It’s 2-3 with a 4 legger thrown in a couple trips a month. The RIGs at SWA are fantastic

What he said. I can’t tell you the last time I flew 5 legs. My current trip is 4/2/3. Most of my days are 2/3 legs per day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinRest (Post 3714401)

dude I’ve been here almost a year.. only time I’ve done 5 legs was Inter island ONCE. Most are 2-3 w/ very minimal sits. It’s efficient. AS layovers are way too long and a waste of time. We also have a lot of soft time here and your pay goes up rapidly without even knowing why sometimes. New contract coming soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traffic Alert (Post 3714566)

Since our new contract at Alaska took effect most of my layovers got shorter and my soft time has gone through the roof. The addition of ADG (average daily guarantee) to the mix has removed the cost incentive for the long layovers paired with inefficient trips.

I've done 5 leg days flying interisland in Hawaii. I've also had a couple of days on the West Coast. I don't know what the turn times are at AS, but if you're gonna end up with a 5 leg day at SWA, they'll be 35-45 minute turns.

Also, as others have said, having a line at SWA is just a starting point. When I was a junior FO, I don't think I ever flew my line as awarded... as in not one originally awarded trip. ELITT'ed out of them all and over the month, made my line to be more what I wanted.

When you read our sub-forum, it's the same handful of people who literally get off on bashing Southwest at every opportunity. If you choose to listen to these bozos, well... that's on you. Not to say we don't have problems or issues, or a major contract fight on our hands, or a looming pilot strike if this contract doesn't get resolved pronto.

At the same time, I have no doubt that our new contract will blow AS away by leaps and bounds in every category.

Final parting shot, my best friend left AS after 3.5 years there and is within upgrade range here. Zero regrets even though he would have been a CA at AS right now. I've run into and recently flown with several AS guys here, but I don't know of anyone who left SWA to go to AS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 (Post 3714703)

Final parting shot, my best friend left AS after 3.5 years there and is within upgrade range here. Zero regrets even though he would have been a CA at AS right now. I've run into and recently flown with several AS guys here, but I don't know of anyone who left SWA to go to AS.

That's a historical fact, and a significant data point. But it's a bit of a lagging indicator, takes time to make such the switch and get enough experience to compare apples to apples... anyone who has that perspective has not lived the AS 2022 CBA.

The only reason I say "it depends" is because AS has gotten a lot better lately, with some more still to come, and SW is in a rut at the moment.

Maybe we'll soon be back to normal, with SW in the top-three most desirable pilot employers.

The two really discernible factors are bases (a wash in the case of the OP), and the type of flying. AS can offer not-so-productive one-leg mini-vacations to vacation destinations. SW will probably always win on productivity (which you can exchange for days off or $, your choice).