I think it's pretty funny that they're now congratulating pilots on staying at this place for 6 months. Congratulations on the career milestone hahaha, in other words, "congratulations and thanks to everyone who didn't quit during training."

 

Only pilots do payrate math by multiplying seats of an airplane.

 

Hogwash. Aircraft size and seats has always played a significant role in how much the job is worth.

Every seat is a revenue engine. Every seat is a potential lawsuit if the unthinkable happens. The pilots should and are paid proportionally.

A new standard has been set at the 76 seat level. That, in and of itself, should cause a recalibration of larger aircraft.

 

Of course because silly terms like CASM and RASM taking into account the number of seats, revenue generated and costs associated for miles and time flown are worthless in our industry.

But OK, say it's a fair point not to compare exactly pay per seat across two different aircraft sizes. Luckily, we already have an established baseline for the ratio value the company uses.
Current TOS CA at QX for 76 seats is $129. $1.69/seat. Times that by the 178 seats for the Max and you have $302 vs current AS TOS CA at $266

302/266 is 1.135

1.135 is the current baseline ratio between what they will pay for TOS CA's on both sides taking into account not only number seats but all the various other factors they're using. Now run the per seat numbers again with new QX TOS of $215 but use the 1.135 ratio and you now have...

$215/76 = $2.82/hr
2.82*178 = $501/hr
$501/1.135 = $441

Will that be the final number? I don't know. I do know that with inflation since the contact because amendable, we'd need around $305 just to match $266. I also know that airfares on average have been up 24% since pre covid while capacity has been down over 10% with AS leading the way in margins and EPS guidance. I especially know with these new QX numbers, AS has acknowledged they can afford to pay us a lot more than what they previously tried to get us to believe.

 

I’m sorry. APC says we will now accept no lower than $2.5 x 178 = 445/hr. But fuzzy APC math makes that 450-500/hr. If that’s what you are expecting, you’re going to be disappointed. Good luck, Optimist case.

 

Here we are, yet again, and you're arguing against being paid more.

However "reasonable" you think you are, organized labor should make every case it can to raise the bar. And if the airlines can open up the purse strings to save their C-scale operations, (which has rendered regionals obsolete btw) then they certainly can pay proportionally for their mainline pilots.

What is a pilot worth? It's not set in stone.

According to you? Not much.

 

No, I’m arguing against an entirely unrealistic amount. May as well ask for $900/hr.

I’d have to look at the entire package, but the union ask of 320/hr is okay with me. I doubt DOS will be that, but let’s see.

 

But who determines "realistic?"

As a red-blooded capitalist, you should let the market set the rates. If you think asking for too much will break the bank, I highly encourage you to post your evidence. For far too long employees have taken a back seat to executives and stakeholders while money is shoveled out the backdoor in the form of dividends and buybacks.

At long last, we finally have a chance to reverse these trends. Your realism is based on your own prejudices and outdated experience. Why not ask for $450? The shortage only gets worse from here.

 

A month ago you would have absolutely said that $215 per hour was unrealistic for a E175 Captain. To be fair, most of us would have. Now it's the industry standard.

As I said before, this is a time for recalibration. Every mainline pilot group needs to take a hard look at their offers in this "new normal."

You should feel optimistic, Shy.

 

That’s still a pay cut in my opinion. 20 years ago our pilots were at $200/hour. Adjusted for inflation that’s $344/hour in today’s dollars, and that’s without any raises. $350-400 sounds a lot closer to the number we should be aiming for.