ShyGuy

Another view could be, regional wages should never have been what they have been over the years. RJ pay should be about 70% of NB rates at mainline. Regional pay has been insanely low for far too long. Just because they get $215 doesn’t mean legacy carriers need to get 450-500. Using the 70% ballpark, 215/.7 = 307. I guess I’m not understanding that just because the pay was 129 at QX and 266 at AS, and now that QX is 215, our pay needs to be linear like that and be 450/hr. Or we could recognize that RJ pay has always been historically low, they should have never been worse than 65-70% of mainline rates. And perhaps this is a move to fix that? Because by doing linear math and saying we should get 450-500/hr, you’re essentially saying you want Horizon to make half what you make. I understand the seat argument, but I don’t buy that for the regional industry. One, these jets should never have been outsourced. Delta already has payrates in their mainline contract for CRJ900s. Two, now that they are at regionals, their pay should never have been worse than 60-70% of mainline NB rates. IMHO - and it obviously isn’t with a lot - I don’t want to see regionals get left behind at 50% or less of mainline rates again.

Mainline - X
Regional - 65-70% within X

Just my 2 cents. I’d be okay with QX at 215 and AS at 320 at DOS. But y’all do y’all’s

OTZeagle1

That’s way to logical and thought out for this group. Please stop posting intelligible things here, they are not welcome. 1,000.00 an hr or bust!

AK22

SWAPA created an interesting analysis of historical pay rates prior to the current cycle. A quick google search can locate it. But here are a few quick takeaways. NB Captain rates in 1994 at the big three were $166/hr, they capped out with Delta at $240 in 2004.If you plug these numbers into our .gov inflation calculator what do you get?
$166=$331.86; $240=$376.42.
These numbers are for small NB’s and do not reflect 900ER, 9Max reality of today. In short, we’re way behind inflation. This doesn’t even account for the growing scarcity of pilot labor…that “me too clause” better be Iron Clad.

rickair7777

Everything is always baselined to the top of scale. Then everything junior to that is a LINEAR % of the top. Oh wait


I'm no pie-in-sky out-of-touch-with-reality dreamer either. But when I've got a good shot I take it.

rickair7777

Mergers? Like all of them... everything plausible plus a few that aren't. None of which came to pass

That much is plausible... from the company perspective a large bonus/retro will only enrich a bunch of people right before they bang out.

That's also slightly plausible. But only if there's a real merger on the horizon (pun intended).

flyprdu

It's a noble sentiment to suddenly be interested in our regional brethren taking steps towards parity. But it's completely revisionist.

A pay ratio pulled out of thin air does not protect us from regional outsourcing. Ironclad scope does.

We should make every effort to capitalize on the rapid moves happening in the industry. Your suggestion that the mainline rates should slow their progression so that the regionals can catch up is pure negligence.

LJCub

From the fancy Piedmont ads flashing on this website. If this is false, someone please correct me.

"For example, a pilot with two years experience at Air Wisconsin with 950+ hours will join Piedmont as a Direct Entry Captain on step 3, earning $153.75"

"Captains flow to mainline after five years of experience or be paid top of scale until they flow"

No offense, but that puts a hole in your 95% argument. I'm not sure the exact details of the new Mesa and Horizon contracts but I can't believe they don't have similar longevity and/or DEC protocols. It definety looks like AA, which wholly owns Piedmont, is trying fast to adjust to this new paradigm shift

Av8rRr

”This will be a fun post to revisit in a few years!” I’m just gonna copy and paste your own words right here. That way I can look back, and I can laugh at all the things you throw out there. Now it’s QX being sold….. 🤣 And, now there’s no longer any word of an Alaska merger from you. Seems about right for all the ridiculous things you say.

ShyGuy

That's not what I said at all. You went off on about 3 separate topics.

flyprdu

You just said that a ratio of 1.43:1 (70%) seemed like an appropriate amount. By the way, you pulled that completely out of thin air. Two pages ago you lambasted anyone who used a long-standing method of gauging pay, by seats and a ratio of 2.5:1, as being wildly unreasonable. Why is using your linear scale acceptable, while others are not?

For some reason you think that if mainline gets a proportional raise that it somehow diminishes the raise that the regional pilots just received. Please elaborate. Because a raise is a raise. All because others at another company also receive a raise does not impact you at all. In fact it's probably beneficial, as it creates more upward pressure on your employer to match again.

And it's simple math. You are advocating for regionals to get closer to mainlines in pay. In order for that to happen, mainline pay would have to have slower or frozen progress while regionals gain ground. So you did actually say it. You only wrapped those words in "won't someone think of the poor regional pilots!"

I don't understand what you're even arguing at this point, but you sure do want everyone to accept $320 as quickly as possible.