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-   -   Senority List Integration from 2007 on...... (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/alaska/94309-senority-list-integration-2007-a.html)

Packrat 05-16-2016 08:24 AM


Originally Posted by Singlecoil (Post 2129970)
I was wondering how the flight attendant merger will go as well. Does McCaskill-Bond apply to them at all? Will the virgin FA's just get stapled? I think they are non-Union, but I could be wrong.

My impression is that AS Inflight would give them DoH, but that's just an opinion. I think that's what happened with the Jet America F/As.

Molon Labe 05-16-2016 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by full of luv (Post 2129930)
Baseball style has nothing to do with the number of arbitrators... it forces each MEC to essentially make "their best offer" and then someone (1-100 arbitrators) picks just one side in it's entirety without changes.

DAL/NWA was absolutely not baseball style arbitration. Both sides made typical case for why they deserved top spots (generalization) and then the arbitrator did an SLI based on arguments, taking some from DAL and some from NWA.

Baseball style would force each MEC to realize an equitable/plausible solution to it's own members, as not to risk outright losing with over demands. This would create much less hostility between the groups as grownups running the merger committees on each side would explain realities to their own constituencies vice promising the moon and blaming the other side/arbitrator when it didn't come to fruition.

As Pack said before, the threat is that mgmt would want to use the same process in negotiating contracts.

First of all virtually NOTHING from the NWA case or proposal was adopted in the NWA Delta ruling or award, second prepare for ratio with few modifications UAL being the largest divergence and that didn't appear to be that much of a variation...Ratio is the new one size fits all, for some it is good and for some of us it is a career destroyer.

maddogmax 05-16-2016 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Molon Labe (Post 2130091)
First of all virtually NOTHING from the NWA case or proposal was adopted in the NWA Delta ruling or award, second prepare for ratio with few modifications UAL being the largest divergence and that didn't appear to be that much of a variation...Ratio is the new one size fits all, for some it is good and for some of us it is a career destroyer.

I went through both the REP/NWA and DAL/NWA mergers. The first basically went DOH with 20 yr. fences on the wide bodies. I benefited from the fences. The second was basically a ratio, with some modifications for the upcoming NWA retirements. I ended up about 1000 numbers junior to guys hired at Delta 3 years after me.
Bottom line, they both sucked.

Flitestar 05-16-2016 09:34 AM


Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2129922)
Certainly, setting up a classic whipsaw. Its not past AS management to do that either. When they bought Jet America, they threatened the pilot group with shrinking Alaska and expanding Jet America if the pilots didn't accept a concessionary contract.

If you don't think they'd at least make the threat, check out what they just got finished doing to Horizon over the E175 flying.

Agreed.

Has AS management pronounced themselves on their intentions in regards to the certificates?

svergin 05-16-2016 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by Molon Labe (Post 2130091)
First of all virtually NOTHING from the NWA case or proposal was adopted in the NWA Delta ruling or award, second prepare for ratio with few modifications UAL being the largest divergence and that didn't appear to be that much of a variation...Ratio is the new one size fits all, for some it is good and for some of us it is a career destroyer.

Most of us 2005-2008 hires at CAL were 7 years younger than the 98-2001 UAL hires we were slotted with. Although we lost a few % of relative seniority, most of us had very few pilots placed ahead of us on the list that were also younger than us. So we get the benefit of excess retirements we didn't have before. I've moved up 1,300 seniority numbers in the 2 1/2 years since SLI and that would have been 500 at stand alone CAL.

If the VX pilots are substantially younger than their relative seniority counterparts, it will be good for them almost no matter how they are placed on the list, provided it is not strictly DOH. If you're junior and older than average at AS, it's going to suck no matter what.

Mea25000 05-16-2016 11:30 AM

Kinda looks that way. History repeats its self. I have heard a lot of guys saying just keep them separate especially among the FA's. I know some pilots have even written Brad and seem to be willing to keep our current contract to do so. I think it may really be in the works with Ben's new promotion today, he will become the CEO of VX. Poof there goes our pay raise, and we will have no one to blame but our selves. Management will say, we only did what you asked for. If this is how it ends up management will be laughing all the way to the bank.

N19906 05-16-2016 02:29 PM


Originally Posted by ArcticDog (Post 2129738)
Oh, we will grow like crazy, how does 85 EMB-175 sound?

BOHICA

All for QX...

FlyAK 05-16-2016 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by N19906 (Post 2130298)
All for QX...

Haven't you noticed... They always include QX airplanes in the total when they talk about how many airplanes the new airline will have...

EskimoJoe 05-16-2016 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by Mea25000 (Post 2130201)
Kinda looks that way. History repeats its self. I have heard a lot of guys saying just keep them separate especially among the FA's. I know some pilots have even written Brad and seem to be willing to keep our current contract to do so. I think it may really be in the works with Ben's new promotion today, he will become the CEO of VX. Poof there goes our pay raise, and we will have no one to blame but our selves. Management will say, we only did what you asked for. If this is how it ends up management will be laughing all the way to the bank.

What is the hourly rate to adequately compensate you for hundreds of VX pilots put on top of you? Our Jr captain (someone close to yourself I think you said once) was working at Alaska before VX Existed. What's the rate, and do you really think Ben will pay you anything approaching that number? Ben has always been the "bad cop" in the Brad/Ben show BTW.

ArcticDog 05-16-2016 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by N19906 (Post 2130298)
All for QX...

And Skywest. I believe its 20 to Skywest, 35 for QX and 30 QX options to be exact. They keep adjusting the numbers upwards incrementally in 8K filings.


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