Originally Posted by ogilthorpe (Post 2465656)

My god this is insane. We are a small, second-tier airline who is merging with another small, second-tier airline to create a medium-sized second-tier airline. I hope I'm not the only Alaska pilot who finds this kind of stuff embarrassing.

Originally Posted by Just a Lurker (Post 2465433)

It's obvious few have done their homework concerning seniority integration. Let me break it down factually.

In an ALPA-ALPA SLI There are only a few pertinent governing documents: Section 45 of ALPA's Admin Maual, a few clarifying ALPA national newsletters, and the two or three ISL awards since the latest iteration of ALPA Merger policy that resulted from large multi-airline conferences in 2009.

Above all, any ISL must meet the Fair and Equitable (no windfall) standard. F&E has been interpreted to mean the maintenance of pay opportunities and QOL. Since pay in this case is moot with the JCBA, it hinges on QOL. QOL is synonymous with the schedules a pilot is accustomed to, which is informed by 'bidding power,' which is a function of relative seniority. Therefore, under ALPA, relative seniority trumps DOH.

ALPA's governing SLI rules have been whittled down over the years to three. These are the MAJOR equities that Merger committees or arbitrators must use to craft an ISL. However, they are not weighted, they just have to be considered. They are:

1) Category / Class. In AS-VX this has already been negotiated. There are only two: CA/narrow body and FO/narrow body. (A third--constructive notice pilots--will be integrated by straight DOH and attached below the FO/narrow body list as per the TPA.) So all CAs on the snapshot date go in one bucket, and all FOs in the other.

2) Career Expectations. This has been interpreted in awards to mean access to more lucrative flying, which means wide bodies. In this case, career expectations are equal. An argument made concerning upgrade time/potential could be made, but I'm not sure which side would prevail, and there is no recent precedent using such as a Major Equity.

3) Longevity. This is the crux of the AS-VX SLI, which is really simplistic compared to others. Since relative seniority trumps (see above), the Relative Seniority:DOH ratio will be skewed in its favor. How much will be determined by the MINOR equities (Work rules, company stability, growth, retirements, etc.). In UAL-CAL a 65:35 ratio was used. At AA (under McCaskill-Bond) 85:15 was used. Delta-NWA ISL was awarded based on a 'pull and plug' method that resulted in different ratios for the many different category/classes. NO ONE knows where this ratio will fall for AS-VX. There are 8 merger negotiators and 3 arbitrators who will have input that shapes the result, but they don't even know until the end.

VX will have to defend against AS' claims of superior minor equities (including a lopsided DOH).

AS has the problem of several hundred 'career FOs.' These senior pilot's information will be used to create slots that dominate the top of the FO/narrow body list. However, a pilot's name doesn't fill the slot his data creates. In an SLI, no pilot may jump another from his original list. At the end of the process, the created slots are filled in with names from top to bottom of the original lists in a process called 'stove piping.' (Management pilots, LOAs, medicals, and others who didn't 'bring a job to the table' are pulled out at the beginning and not used to create a slot. But they are reinserted below whomever they follow on the original list once all of the slots are filled.) The 'career FOs' will be reinserted in order in slots intermixed with the VX captains, which means those top FO slots their data created will be filled by the corresponding number of junior AS captains. This essentially staples the junior most AS captains (as of the snapshot date) to the captain list and nullifies any potential gains on the FO side. (VX, which had an 'up or out' policy, has almost no bypass FOs by comparison.)
In the end, VX guys will be slotted next to AS guys with much earlier DOHs. Because of hiring practices, the same rules / mechanisms will likely result in many jr. AS FOs being slotted ahead of VX FOs hired before them. But this is the actual process.

Originally Posted by flywest (Post 2466603)

DOH is the gold standard.

Originally Posted by flywest (Post 2466662)

Well if DOH is not the standard. I guess Merit upgrades are next..... I'm done now. I will go away. 22 years online and not looking forward to being Jr to a guy who has not even reached top of scale in pay yet.

Originally Posted by flywest (Post 2466662)

22 years online and not looking forward to being Jr to a guy who has not even reached top of scale in pay yet.