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-   -   Senority List Integration from 2007 on...... (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/alaska/94309-senority-list-integration-2007-a.html)

Mea25000 11-17-2017 06:01 AM

No AS has plenty of HI and transcontinental flying with a second leg. Nothing would change you just would have VX pilots based in SFO on the Boeing and AS guys on the bus in SEA. At this point AS has no plans to have a 320 base in the PNW or a 73 base in SFO... this is looking out to the end of 2021. I know though, a lot of us feel there is no real plan at all at angle lake right now... so 2021 must make everyone laugh

Pogey Bait 11-17-2017 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by Mea25000 (Post 2467795)
No AS has plenty of HI and transcontinental flying with a second leg. Nothing would change you just would have VX pilots based in SFO on the Boeing and AS guys on the bus in SEA. At this point AS has no plans to have a 320 base in the PNW or a 73 base in SFO... this is looking out to the end of 2021. I know though, a lot of us feel there is no real plan at all at angle lake right now... so 2021 must make everyone laugh

Good to hear about the second leg deal, that seemed quite unproductive.

At least we are going to PIT next fall (2018)!! Stay positive man!

Packrat 11-17-2017 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by PokerPilot007 (Post 2467634)
Sorry but DOH isn’t relevant in an ALPA-ALPA merger.

It was the cornerstone of the Merger/Fragmentation Policy until the early '90s when UAL forced its replacement with "career expectations."

Packrat 11-17-2017 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by Bugaboo (Post 2467787)
Alaska wont add on a 2nd leg after a east/west transcon right?

They usually tack it on BEFORE the transcon. Had a couple months of DEN-SEA-EWR at one point.

AltoCumulus 11-17-2017 10:52 AM

Looking at the previous arbitrated mergers I estimate that the number 1vx will be slotted amongst people that were hired in the 90's. If you made me bet I would guess around '97-98ish.

Whatever leverage AS pilots had over VX over the SLI was declined to be used by the AS MEC. They decided that it was better to have a unified pilot group and fight together over wages with a quick integration than fight for a better SLI for AS pilots. For better or for worse? I dont't know. I do hope the VX guys give us a little more respect and consideration because of it.

Now that that ship has sailed AS pilots are left with no real leverage in this SLI since all of the precedents cut against AS with regards to the proper weight of longevity. 15-30% is the current range of outcomes. There are lots of good arguments for why that number should be more than 30%...As an AS pilot I am hoping for something closer to a 40 or 50...but we are nowhere near talking about anything close to a 100% weighting for longevity which is what DOH advocates are advocating.

When all this is done, there is nothing good for AS pilots that would have come from this merger. The only AS pilots that will be cheering are the retirees with their new expanded travel network to stand-by on.

flywest 11-17-2017 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by AltoCumulus (Post 2467919)
Looking at the previous arbitrated mergers I estimate that the number 1vx will be slotted amongst people that were hired in the 90's. If you made me bet I would guess around '97-98ish.

Whatever leverage AS pilots had over VX over the SLI was declined to be used by the AS MEC. They decided that it was better to have a unified pilot group and fight together over wages with a quick integration than fight for a better SLI for AS pilots. For better or for worse? I dont't know. I do hope the VX guys give us a little more respect and consideration because of it.

Now that that ship has sailed AS pilots are left with no real leverage in this SLI since all of the precedents cut against AS with regards to the proper weight of longevity. 15-30% is the current range of outcomes. There are lots of good arguments for why that number should be more than 30%...As an AS pilot I am hoping for something closer to a 40 or 50...but we are nowhere near talking about anything close to a 100% weighting for longevity which is what DOH advocates are advocating.

When all this is done, there is nothing good for AS pilots that would have come from this merger. The only AS pilots that will be cheering are the retirees with their new expanded travel network to stand-by on.

Agreed, We're along for the ride now. It will be, what it will be.

Reggie Dunlop 11-17-2017 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by flywest (Post 2467450)
Both UAL and CAL were legacy carriers. Not a 85 year old company who acquired a start up. This is not a merger. It's an acquisition. DOH is more than fair. If Delta had bought Alaska. I would expect to be at the mercy of the DALPA.

Look at the cute little troll.

2StgTurbine 11-17-2017 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2467814)
It was the cornerstone of the Merger/Fragmentation Policy until the early '90s when UAL forced its replacement with "career expectations."

A lot of mergers have happened since.

Packrat 11-17-2017 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine (Post 2467977)
A lot of mergers have happened since.

True. However, the whole reason for the change was to keep USAir pilots out of UAL widebody seats. Up until that point DoH was the gold standard. After that more than a few mergers saw one or the other pilot group getting hosed.

vroll1800 11-17-2017 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2467981)
True. However, the whole reason for the change was to keep USAir pilots out of UAL widebody seats. Up until that point DoH was the gold standard. After that more than a few mergers saw one or the other pilot group getting hosed.

You might want to check on the Pan Am/ National merger (1979). In the book "Skygods", Robert Gandt chronicles how arbitrator favored "career expectations" in that merger. Many Pan Am pilots felt hosed, seeing themselves hundreds of numbers lower in seniority than they expected. There were some National Captains that had later DOH than many Pan Am SO's.


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