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Originally Posted by Humblepielot
(Post 4035364)
Agreed. This AIP is quite a fail. If you factor in the retention bonus it actually is potentially a pay cut to take the AIP rates for some longevities and positions (vs continuing to accrue the retention bonus).
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new rumor is sy alpa filing tomorrow so no reason to vote no on aip, rip.
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Originally Posted by pipercub
(Post 4035390)
Where is this info that shows more dates are available. I have seen nothing from the union that shows that to be true either. Unless the AIP were to fall apart it would me months for them to get back to the table if the pilots voted no.
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Jesus, does no one want to see the actual language before picking a side?
The pay rates for 2026 are more or less equal to what we have now with the retention bonus. If the TA sucks and we vote no we're not done negotiating, far from it, and you're not losing money until 2027. This isn't the "best you're gonna get" offer despite what some people will lead you to believe. |
Originally Posted by captnate702
(Post 4035392)
fine, if you disagree about the leadership then whatever. But you can’t agree with me about SLI arbitration and how much we stand to lose AND say it is poor leadership to give us this deal and that we’d be better off with nothing. Those two opinions are incompatible full stop.
does the deal suck? Of course. Was RJ to blame for everything that happened before January? Maybe, and I won’t argue with you if that’s what you believe. bit there are facts we can agree on. Where we are today is a sunk cost. We all knew there was no more leverage, that it was lost years ago. The Iran war gave us even less leverage because now management can say that any raise is generous with where we are at with fuel and the NMB will go along with it. the goal is to not get destroyed at SLI arbitration with SY and these rates do that. Thats what matters. We have a low risk no vote with this offer as it appears to not be substantially different from the current RB accrual. |
Originally Posted by captnate702
(Post 4035393)
I saw and heard union officials openly saying that the NMB was going to put us on ice indefinitely if we kept insisting on legacy/industry rates, work rules, etc.
apparently the mediator said JCBA is the time to fight for that stuff If it was a 5 year deal on the table, it might be worth it to vote no and try for more. But not here. Too risky to vote no. You have a quick 2 year deal and then jcba next. What are you going to do, vote no, risk an icing by the nmb for a couple more bucks? This is a no brainer |
Originally Posted by Humblepielot
(Post 4035411)
We have a low risk no vote with this offer as it appears to not be substantially different from the current RB accrual.
Fair point, if there is no LTD 401K or pay higher than what is currently the RB accrual rate with some instances it's actually a pay CUT, then why vote yes? There is no downside to vote no. (Actually NO might be better because CBI is better than NavBlue) HOWEVER, that might be what the company wants so they can kick this till the JCBA several years from now. It's not TA'd yet, not to late to reject the deal |
Could the company end the retention bonuses?
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Originally Posted by Humblepielot
(Post 4035411)
McCaskill-Bond primarily focuses on career expectations like pre-merger upgrade timelines, equipment and base preferences, longevity, status, and category and not differences in same category pay rates. I don’t understand the push to pass a subpar agreement based on the assumption that the contract would somehow influence our SLI arbitration. Don’t listen to me or any other pilot look into it yourself.
We have a low risk no vote with this offer as it appears to not be substantially different from the current RB accrual. We would get destroyed at SLI with rates 25% less, retirement is approx a third less. Don’t even get started on work rules, if the arbitrator looks at those we are truly screwed. you are a fool if you think an arbitrator is gonna credit for our career expectations above SY pilots because we win the “base preferences” contest. Arbitrators go out of their way to stick to objective measures in SLI arbitrations. Rates are the absolute most objective measure because the fleets are the same. Not saying it’s the only thing they look at but they absolutely look at it. To say that they do “not look at differences in same category pay rates” is blatantly a lie. |
Cash grab (RB).
Only 2 yr deal. SLI (Career Expectations) $100/$50 (CA/FO) Bump per hour Loss of License / LTD improvements Flexers will flex… but TA will pass. ✈️✈️ ALPA wins |
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