Contract negotiations
07-20-2022, 05:56 PM
#501
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by Be Realistic
Way to go making light of a fellow crew members dreadful experience. Maybe we need to focus more on the reserve QOL, being that all new hires will have to experience that, and forget about the HDMWD complaint, being that its just a snotty few who have to worry about it?
Don't allow those who could have a good career else where consider this dump for more than a second without knowing the truth about how little they will make or how they will be abused or how they will never upgrade in FL in the next 10-15 years. Some of us have reason to be stuck here. If only I could go back
Don't allow those who could have a good career else where consider this dump for more than a second without knowing the truth about how little they will make or how they will be abused or how they will never upgrade in FL in the next 10-15 years. Some of us have reason to be stuck here. If only I could go back
People who are not based in Florida have a much different job. Reserves in the small bases don't fly much. Line holders get VFNs fairly easily, especially if you live in base. A junior line holder captain in a small base can easily make $300k without doing a single layover, and probably flying less than 700 hours a year. Compared to Delta or Southwest, it might be 100k less, but the job is not really comparable to someone who commutes to LGA or does 3 day trips. Everyone can make their choice.
07-21-2022, 04:48 AM
#502
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A-320
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by captnate702
You don’t need to be stuck here. According to some on here, before 2024 you could be making $400-$500k at AA with their 10 month captain upgrade.
As bad as QOL is on reserve, it’s still better here imo than at any other airline. I for one appreciate the home every night schedule (even if it’s not every night, the fact that it’s well over 90% system wide is pretty damn good if you value home every night which myself and my family do).
As bad as QOL is on reserve, it’s still better here imo than at any other airline. I for one appreciate the home every night schedule (even if it’s not every night, the fact that it’s well over 90% system wide is pretty damn good if you value home every night which myself and my family do).
Originally Posted by 9easy
We're talking about two airlines here. People who are based in Florida and hired before ~2014 are hosed, I can't imagine how anyone can do reserve there with all the cross state Lyfts rides, repos, etc. Upgrade is not going to happen in a Florida base. If you live in Florida are you're junior, it makes sense to go to practically any other airline... UPS/AA with the Miami base, Southwest with MCO, even F9 with Tampa.
People who are not based in Florida have a much different job. Reserves in the small bases don't fly much. Line holders get VFNs fairly easily, especially if you live in base. A junior line holder captain in a small base can easily make $300k without doing a single layover, and probably flying less than 700 hours a year. Compared to Delta or Southwest, it might be 100k less, but the job is not really comparable to someone who commutes to LGA or does 3 day trips. Everyone can make their choice.
People who are not based in Florida have a much different job. Reserves in the small bases don't fly much. Line holders get VFNs fairly easily, especially if you live in base. A junior line holder captain in a small base can easily make $300k without doing a single layover, and probably flying less than 700 hours a year. Compared to Delta or Southwest, it might be 100k less, but the job is not really comparable to someone who commutes to LGA or does 3 day trips. Everyone can make their choice.
07-21-2022, 06:36 AM
#503
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 911
Originally Posted by 9easy
We're talking about two airlines here. People who are based in Florida and hired before ~2014 are hosed, I can't imagine how anyone can do reserve there with all the cross state Lyfts rides, repos, etc. Upgrade is not going to happen in a Florida base. If you live in Florida are you're junior, it makes sense to go to practically any other airline... UPS/AA with the Miami base, Southwest with MCO, even F9 with Tampa.
People who are not based in Florida have a much different job. Reserves in the small bases don't fly much. Line holders get VFNs fairly easily, especially if you live in base. A junior line holder captain in a small base can easily make $300k without doing a single layover, and probably flying less than 700 hours a year. Compared to Delta or Southwest, it might be 100k less, but the job is not really comparable to someone who commutes to LGA or does 3 day trips. Everyone can make their choice.
People who are not based in Florida have a much different job. Reserves in the small bases don't fly much. Line holders get VFNs fairly easily, especially if you live in base. A junior line holder captain in a small base can easily make $300k without doing a single layover, and probably flying less than 700 hours a year. Compared to Delta or Southwest, it might be 100k less, but the job is not really comparable to someone who commutes to LGA or does 3 day trips. Everyone can make their choice.
07-21-2022, 07:34 AM
#504
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A-320
Posts: 172
Simple facts here folks
Allegiant (MG) will never give up $1 sooner than he needs to. He doesn't pay you on what you are worth, he pays you the minimum he has to pay you to get the work done. Now they may fluff a few flights here and there, but overall they are content with the number of pilots per aircraft (which is one of the lowest in the industry).
New hires don't concern MG. It costs about $45k to train a new hire including hotel, salary, sim etc. And the first year the FO's work for about $45k less than the second year FO's which means new hires cost zero. Its better for the company if senior people leave and there is a higher number of low pay employees than the senior guys. Senior pilots cost more to do the exact same job.
The only way they will pay any more money is when the number of new hires is low enough to significantly impact the operation. Drawing down of the schedule by 18% for the summer was overkill. There is now zero open time to pick up and even drops available in some bases. They will be more cautious in the future. Perhaps they will take down the last 1/4 by 5-10%, r maybe they wont even do that. Because we have had an extremely low cancellation rate through the summer.
New hires are cheaper, willing to bend over, and them leaving means nothing to allegiant. When the new hire class is empty then they will act (about 12 months late). So for all you guys who say we are exaggerating, you may have a different picture from where you are sat, or most likely you are a management tool. Life in FL is hard if you are in the bottom 50% in seat. All micro bases are at risk of closure, so don't come for that. S#1T is going to get real bad in the next 12 months as they try to bring a new aircraft online.
In 10 years time G4 will not be the same as it is now. You should accept that it will either become a real airline or it will go under/be bought by another crappy carrier.
Allegiant (MG) will never give up $1 sooner than he needs to. He doesn't pay you on what you are worth, he pays you the minimum he has to pay you to get the work done. Now they may fluff a few flights here and there, but overall they are content with the number of pilots per aircraft (which is one of the lowest in the industry).
New hires don't concern MG. It costs about $45k to train a new hire including hotel, salary, sim etc. And the first year the FO's work for about $45k less than the second year FO's which means new hires cost zero. Its better for the company if senior people leave and there is a higher number of low pay employees than the senior guys. Senior pilots cost more to do the exact same job.
The only way they will pay any more money is when the number of new hires is low enough to significantly impact the operation. Drawing down of the schedule by 18% for the summer was overkill. There is now zero open time to pick up and even drops available in some bases. They will be more cautious in the future. Perhaps they will take down the last 1/4 by 5-10%, r maybe they wont even do that. Because we have had an extremely low cancellation rate through the summer.
New hires are cheaper, willing to bend over, and them leaving means nothing to allegiant. When the new hire class is empty then they will act (about 12 months late). So for all you guys who say we are exaggerating, you may have a different picture from where you are sat, or most likely you are a management tool. Life in FL is hard if you are in the bottom 50% in seat. All micro bases are at risk of closure, so don't come for that. S#1T is going to get real bad in the next 12 months as they try to bring a new aircraft online.
In 10 years time G4 will not be the same as it is now. You should accept that it will either become a real airline or it will go under/be bought by another crappy carrier.
07-21-2022, 08:25 AM
#505
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by Be Realistic
Way to go making light of a fellow crew members dreadful experience. Maybe we need to focus more on the reserve QOL, being that all new hires will have to experience that, and forget about the HDMWD complaint, being that its just a snotty few who have to worry about it?
Don't allow those who could have a good career else where consider this dump for more than a second without knowing the truth about how little they will make or how they will be abused or how they will never upgrade in FL in the next 10-15 years. Some of us have reason to be stuck here. If only I could go back
Don't allow those who could have a good career else where consider this dump for more than a second without knowing the truth about how little they will make or how they will be abused or how they will never upgrade in FL in the next 10-15 years. Some of us have reason to be stuck here. If only I could go back
Originally Posted by captnate702
You don’t need to be stuck here. According to some on here, before 2024 you could be making $400-$500k at AA with their 10 month captain upgrade.
As bad as QOL is on reserve, it’s still better here imo than at any other airline. I for one appreciate the home every night schedule (even if it’s not every night, the fact that it’s well over 90% system wide is pretty damn good if you value home every night which myself and my family do).
As bad as QOL is on reserve, it’s still better here imo than at any other airline. I for one appreciate the home every night schedule (even if it’s not every night, the fact that it’s well over 90% system wide is pretty damn good if you value home every night which myself and my family do).
You also gotta stop with the "I'm home every night" crap. BFD. If you love your home and family that much you should probably bid PVU. So if you're not "Mo", you go on a trip, drink your way across the country, then enjoy your home even more when you get back from your trip. I'm sorry, but G4 is one of the most boring jobs I've ever had. You fly to the same places with the same people every day then go home every night and do the same things. The only thing we do that other airlines can't is lots of days off if you're senior because of our efficient trips.
And yeah those who got their S- together and left early this year are going to see the left seat in less than 2 years at any legacy carrier. Making $300K on reserve. Home every night at least half the month (oh yeah legacy pilots also don't get 20 reserve days on their schedule every month, 14-16 is the norm).
It's been said 100 times and I'll say it again. Unless you're super senior here you're wasting your life by staying right now. Stop talking yourself into complacency.
MS leaving should have been a huge wake up call for everyone.
07-21-2022, 10:40 AM
#506
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
What he meant by that was "Son, all you need to do is get you some more seniority".
GTFOH. That's high seniority talking and the high seniority guys like you who only sit reserve if you pick up a RAP on a Tuesday are totally out of touch with what those below you are dealing with. Reserve at other airlines (or air lines if you like hats and positive space commuting) is long call with 12 hour report. If you live in base it's pretty easy to forget you have a job. Commuting is nothing if you plan ahead. Even if they convert you to short call or you're on a short call line it's "promptly available" (undefined but generally accepted as 2-3 hours and driving distance from the airport) which is still better than here with "90 minutes to the parking lot" and handing out no-shows like candy because you were in the shower and didn't call them back for 11 minutes.
You also gotta stop with the "I'm home every night" crap. BFD. If you love your home and family that much you should probably bid PVU. So if you're not "Mo", you go on a trip, drink your way across the country, then enjoy your home even more when you get back from your trip. I'm sorry, but G4 is one of the most boring jobs I've ever had. You fly to the same places with the same people every day then go home every night and do the same things. The only thing we do that other airlines can't is lots of days off if you're senior because of our efficient trips.
And yeah those who got their S- together and left early this year are going to see the left seat in less than 2 years at any legacy carrier. Making $300K on reserve. Home every night at least half the month (oh yeah legacy pilots also don't get 20 reserve days on their schedule every month, 14-16 is the norm).
It's been said 100 times and I'll say it again. Unless you're super senior here you're wasting your life by staying right now. Stop talking yourself into complacency.
MS leaving should have been a huge wake up call for everyone.
GTFOH. That's high seniority talking and the high seniority guys like you who only sit reserve if you pick up a RAP on a Tuesday are totally out of touch with what those below you are dealing with. Reserve at other airlines (or air lines if you like hats and positive space commuting) is long call with 12 hour report. If you live in base it's pretty easy to forget you have a job. Commuting is nothing if you plan ahead. Even if they convert you to short call or you're on a short call line it's "promptly available" (undefined but generally accepted as 2-3 hours and driving distance from the airport) which is still better than here with "90 minutes to the parking lot" and handing out no-shows like candy because you were in the shower and didn't call them back for 11 minutes.
You also gotta stop with the "I'm home every night" crap. BFD. If you love your home and family that much you should probably bid PVU. So if you're not "Mo", you go on a trip, drink your way across the country, then enjoy your home even more when you get back from your trip. I'm sorry, but G4 is one of the most boring jobs I've ever had. You fly to the same places with the same people every day then go home every night and do the same things. The only thing we do that other airlines can't is lots of days off if you're senior because of our efficient trips.
And yeah those who got their S- together and left early this year are going to see the left seat in less than 2 years at any legacy carrier. Making $300K on reserve. Home every night at least half the month (oh yeah legacy pilots also don't get 20 reserve days on their schedule every month, 14-16 is the norm).
It's been said 100 times and I'll say it again. Unless you're super senior here you're wasting your life by staying right now. Stop talking yourself into complacency.
MS leaving should have been a huge wake up call for everyone.
Have you made it your personal mission to constantly spread negativity? You must never fly, as you are always here to spread cheer.
Why are you still at G4? Unless you are 60+ years old I still cant fathom why you havent jumped ship yet.
07-21-2022, 11:51 AM
#507
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 911
Originally Posted by j3cub
MS was a commuter. That makes a big difference compared to someone who lives in base.
Have you made it your personal mission to constantly spread negativity? You must never fly, as you are always here to spread cheer.
Why are you still at G4? Unless you are 60+ years old I still cant fathom why you havent jumped ship yet.
Have you made it your personal mission to constantly spread negativity? You must never fly, as you are always here to spread cheer.
Why are you still at G4? Unless you are 60+ years old I still cant fathom why you havent jumped ship yet.
07-21-2022, 05:51 PM
#509
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 911
During busier times / summer, Dec., Mar, you would be on reserve 18-20 days and be used virtually every day with zero schedule flexibility. No drops. During slow months - Sept, April - there might be a few drops available here and there but no way not even close are you ever dropping to zero.
07-21-2022, 06:12 PM
#510
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by ATISInformation
Does anyone know how possible it is to drop to 0 (or to drop trips generally) as a junior FO at a big Allegiant base? What is the minimum a junior FO can possibly fly in a given month?
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