tailendcharlie

You can also just not upgrade.......doesn't take long to be a relatively senior FO at Allegiant (West coast excepted). Doesn't mean it'll be commutable but won't be nearly as bad as junior captain.

Of course that assumes you actually want to stick around and aren't here soley for the Type & PIC...

full of luv

It's really this kind of logic that lets ALG mgmt off the hook. They seem to truly want to run ALG as a regional airline where the pilots accept sub standard pay and working conditions for the future expectation of moving on to bigger and better. Thereby keeping pilots young, gullible and full of hope without any longevity or future at ALG. All the time mgmt will be cashing in personally while short cutting the mx and trng program as much as the FAA will allow them to get away with.

Stok1

Management's mantra now is if you don't like it leave. They are adamant now on the Peter Pan pilot; no kids, no wife and unencumbered. Got me in the VBD no problem. Big problem, these aren't RJs. Whether we stay or go, this toxin of Gallagher will infect your dream airline. So, if we are here let's make their lives hell with a contract that respects the profession.

FirstClass

I suspect you'll need at least 2 more contracts till you can be on par with a spirit or JetBlue etc.. based on the type of expectations they are laying out on G4pilots.com. I was only saying it's hard for a pilot in the market to seriously consider allegiant. If allegiant management can't be bothered to treat their own company well with quality maintenance and employee treatment, I'm not sure how they can expect people to want to come and work there and be anything other than an airbus type rating revolving door. Maybe when the hiring starts picking up they'll figure out how to compete.

I can come to no other conclusion that management wants a pilot in and out of there in 5 years. Correct me if I'm wrong.

fishforfun

It's hard to come to any other conclusion when the pay, retirement and healthcare are so terrible. I listened to the union conference call and was disappointed to hear we are still negotiating for below industry standard. I can only hope spirit and others get their TA approved before were done negotiating. There have been improvements made in the training department but they are small ones. Considering how much they want to grow in the next five years they really need to step up.

HVYMETALDRVR

I just don't understand the argument? Although I don't want to actually trade years of my life away, a 20 year Legacy FO makes about the same money and has a much better QOL than a 5 year G4 CA. The only exception possibly being the old US Airways guys, though in the last 2-3 years there has been a lot of potential for movement with all the retirements over there.

A 20 year G4 FO? Well there is no such thing since we haven't been around that long, but an 18 year FO here could easily bid the left seat on any aircraft. He/she would probably be the most senior person in all of FL and in the top couple bidders in every base out west. Although underpaid, he/she would be topped out at 97/hr, definitely weak compared to our legacy counterparts, but not exactly on food stamps either.

So again, I don't see why a bitter 5 year G4 CA would offend them? And yes, if you are a 5 yr CA out west in LAS or IWA you still don't hold enough seniority to always avoid RSV or the Florida TDY. I flew with a couple of them down here in Florida.

eagleatr

Actually, as someone who as left Allegiant for one of those legacy carriers, let me correct your statement.

I've been at the current legacy for just under a year. I work anywhere from 9-15 days a month, either as a line holder or on reserve. Yes, I do commute, because I have no desire to live in my base, but I can freely trade trips/reserve days and drop trips. I get anywhere from two days to two weeks off at a time. I have NEVER had a single day off, at least so far, and don't expect I ever will.

I left Allegiant as an almost 10 year captain. I was still almost involuntarily TDY'd the the last month I was there. At my current carrier, when they offer TDY, people bid for it. The don't force people to go where they don't want to be.

Yes, I took a pay cut the first year. However, by early in to my second year, I will make as much as a second year FO as I was making as a 10 year captain there. And, I work about 1/3 as hard. I fly new, or nearly new airplanes, that the mechanics actually fix. I haven't had any serious mechanical problems, no engine failures, and, best of all, I have never had to declare an emergency in my time so far, unlike the once a week time at Allegiant.

The best part is, I get treated like a real person, my family has actual insurance again, and there is a really good retirement plan. Oh, and depending on what they do for aircraft orders, I could be a captain again in 3-4 years if I want to be. Or maybe less. Or, I could work six days a month as a senior FO. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

HVYMETALDRVR

Thanks for that, a lot of guys don't realize that life at a Legacy is more than min contractual days off and hourly pay multiplied by 75 hours a month. I have a couple friends/acquaintances over at DL and they routinely go 2-3 weeks without ever seeing the airport or an airplane. I tend not to ask about pay but my buddy that Hawks open time (I think it's called green slip flying?) said he doesn't have a problem clearing 110 credit every month.

Must be nice.

Hilltopper89

FWIW I've been at a major 2.5 years and average 17 days off a month. At 60% in base and seat I have 17 days off in a row in November. I've had 85 hr, 19 day off months. I've flown anywhere from 80-105 hrs a month. Not sure where fishforfun is getting 10 years and never seeing our kids. My wife just about kicks me out the door when it's time to go back to work.

Not an argument against Allegiant. If you're happy there by all means stay. Just get the facts straight.

fishforfun

What legacy has upgrades in 4 years and getting more and 20 days off a month? This is very different from all I have seen from everyone I know at the legacies.