If they did return they would need their head examined. Probably at least on 10th year pay at UPS vs year 2 or 3 at AA. No-brainer.

However, what we are talking about here is if someone already at AA should leave for somewhere else. For guys with over a year on property I think the consensus is to stay. For guys in their first year it really comes down to personal preference, domiciles, retirements, etc.

It's a crap shoot.

I personally know two guys who left FedEx and UPS to come back here after being furloughed. They both hated the schedules there and claimed that the extra $$$ absolutely was not worth what the schedules were doing to their health. So no, people don't need their "head examined".... different courses for different horses. It's a beautiful thing.

That said, if you only have a couple years here and FedEx or UPS calls and they are a better fit, of course it makes sense to leave.

Right on. He made it sound like none of the guys returned. I haven't heard of any guys leaving there to come back either so figured no one would.

It's a good problem to have. First world problems and what not.

I've been Brown 2.5 years and don't remotely hate the place. I also don't commute, which certainly reduces the pain of juniority that plagues every airline.

Every pilot group deals with variations of the same BS. Stagnation and furloughs and drug-out contract negotiations certainly can lead people to feeling bitter, and with good reason - thankfully now neither AA or UPS is dealing with that.

It ain't all sunshine and rainbows in SDF, and the job ain't for everybody...but it also isn't exactly the indentured servitude some on here would lead others to believe. The compensation & benefits are excellent (thanks IPA!) and worthy of a look by anyone - but if you're 85% or higher at AA with the retirements looming you have, that seems like a sizable risk.

JMHO

The pay "rates" at AA will probably get better in the next contract but once QOL items are gone from the contract, they pretty much never come back from what I have seen. AA schedules and days off have been trending downward and will likely never get better again.

DAL, SWA and UAL destroy AA in QOL and day off averages for the vast majority of narrow body pilots. Which is worth far more than just pay rates in my book. Personally I would rather have an extra week off every month than get another few dollars an hour. My life at home is worth more than just an extra 15K a year at that level of compensation anyway. Who cares what the rates are if you only get 12-13 days off a month vs their 15-18 days off for junior pilots. (With more pay for the time you are at work to boot).

Unfortunately most people working for AAG seem to only see or care about the dollar amount of pay rates with little regard for work rules or QOL issues. So the fight will probably never be in the right place to "really" improve things.

Agree the work rules suck. But if you can avoid the slash trips then your credit per day will be equal to most other airlines. For example I have 15 days off in April, 85.5 credit and all commutable.

The work rules are garbage and need fixing. It takes a little seniority horsepower to be able to avoid the low-paying stuff but if you can then the trips are OK.

I agree with you except for the statement that QOL items will never be addressed. If the right people are put on the negotiating committee it will happen. The best course of action would be to dump most of the nAAtive negotiators and bring in more LUS guys, with an emphasis on pilots that have experience in contract negotiations. Except for pay, the west contract was far superior to anything the AA pilots have seen. And you'd have to get east pilots from before LOA 93.

I've got 4 leg days on the 330 in April :eek:

You should leave AA if you think things are going to get better than they are now. Particularly after we are all on PBS, you will see what is realistically in your future. I would not count on much new flying. I would not count on a huge increase of aircraft, particularly in the higher pay groups. On the positive side, retirements are coming big time so progression should be fairly fast for those on the property now. Pay will continue to be lagging and management will stretch negotiations out for a long time...years beyond the due date thanks to the RLA as always. I never have flown for anyone other than AA, so I can't compare us with others. Contractually though, we are definitely a solid 4 out of the 4 majors and 6 out of 6 if you count FEX and UPS.
The attitude here sucks from the lowest employee group to the highest. Three and a half decades and I am still seeing it decline.
It impacts pride in your airline and pride in your profession. If you don't think that morale is that important then you haven't been here.
That has to count for a lot in the long run.
Finally, at least do some light research on what this company is laying its foundation on versus its competitors. Their strategy is quite a bit different and is based on unrealistic expectations in the future, IMO. Reminds me of our economy before the last collapse.
22 billion in debt and rising spending all that cheap money. Believe me, when the music stops they will once again depend on the employees and bankruptcy courts to bail themselves out.
Good Luck on your decision. Hopefully you already knew what Ive been ranting about. I think most of us do.

Let me guess BOS-PHL-CLT-MCO. :p