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jcountry 08-27-2017 06:38 AM

APA had a chance to fix a whole lot of stuff.

Unfortunately, they took that chance to get rid of better work rules and credits in both the east and west contracts. They quite literally took a good look at both contracts-and took all the good stuff out.

The union spends more time hosing its own pilots than anything else. This JCBA is incredible. Worse work rules than even the crappiest regionals-and we paid people to negotiate the damn thing for us.

If given the chance I'd vote the damn union out. Mgmt can hose us for free.

APA is a dues collection organization. That's all they do for us.

Mover 08-27-2017 07:09 AM


Originally Posted by jcountry (Post 2420400)
APA had a chance to fix a whole lot of stuff.

Unfortunately, they took that chance to get rid of better work rules and credits in both the east and west contracts. They quite literally took a good look at both contracts-and took all the good stuff out.

The union spends more time hosing its own pilots than anything else. This JCBA is incredible. Worse work rules than even the crappiest regionals-and we paid people to negotiate the damn thing for us.

If given the chance I'd vote the damn union out. Mgmt can hose us for free.

APA is a dues collection organization. That's all they do for us.

Envoy gives hotel rooms to its commuters 4 times per month. Our own regional treats its pilots better.

Let that sink in.

Rawhide16 08-27-2017 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by Mover (Post 2420415)
Envoy gives hotel rooms to its commuters 4 times per month. Our own regional treats its pilots better.

Let that sink in.

PSA commuters also get up to $250 a month in hotel reimbursements. They also have a Schedule Adjustment Period (SAP) that allows line holders to drop up to 65 hours of trips and essentially rebuild their schedule from available trips. Those are both incredible QOL issues that AAG's wholly owned regional gets.

Mover 08-27-2017 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by aviator77 (Post 2420424)
PSA commuters also get up to $250 a month in hotel reimbursements. They also have a Schedule Adjustment Period (SAP) that allows line holders to drop up to 65 hours of trips and essentially rebuild their schedule from available trips. Those are both incredible QOL issues that AAG's wholly owned regional gets.

Meanwhile, the senior ladder pullers on CnR say, "Commuting is a choice. Suck it up."

jcountry 08-27-2017 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by Mover (Post 2420415)
Envoy gives hotel rooms to its commuters 4 times per month. Our own regional treats its pilots better.

Let that sink in.

The truly amazing part is:

APA turned the most leverage in major airline history into the worst work rules since the DC3s went away.

TrinityDawn 08-27-2017 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by Mover (Post 2420415)
Envoy gives hotel rooms to its commuters 4 times per month. Our own regional treats its pilots better.

Let that sink in.

LOL....no, no they don't treat us any better, I assure you. Every envoy flow-through I've talked to has said the worst day at AA is still better than what they put up with here. The latest comm from our MEC spells out some of the issues, from pilot pushing to making FMLA as hard as possible to get. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Lots of flow-throughs have told me they feel treated like adults over there in comparison.

QuagmireGiggity 08-27-2017 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by viper548 (Post 2420398)
Min calendar day would be a 30% to 50% raise for the guys stuck with slash trips. Some guys are currently working 18 days a month for 78 hours.

Browsing LA schedules I saw one with 10 days off and 6 slash trips. He wasn't super junior either.

QuagmireGiggity 08-27-2017 11:37 AM


Originally Posted by TrinityDawn (Post 2420438)
LOL....no, no they don't treat us any better, I assure you. Every envoy flow-through I've talked to has said the worst day at AA is still better than what they put up with here. The latest comm from our MEC spells out some of the issues, from pilot pushing to making FMLA as hard as possible to get. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Lots of flow-throughs have told me they feel treated like adults over there in comparison.

Not me.
Yes, in general things are better but the worst day at AA is far worse than my worst days at Eagle. Never once did I fly 6 hours all night nor be stuck with 10 days and can't get home. The best schedules are however far better than Eagle. Eagle really wasn't that bad back before the schedules went downhill... It was really the pay that was the issue.

Reserve is far better tho.

Name User 08-27-2017 12:04 PM

LUS didn't even have a line guarantee and combined with A320 CAs making $125/hr $85/hr FOs topped out, I'll take the current AA contract every single time. Guys must have some serious selective memory or they never flew under the LUS contract as a block holder to know just how bad it was. Reserve was great as we had a ton of them but we made $50k/yr on an Airbus. Spirit guys made way more than us.

I would like LOS to be implemented but if you deferred it goes to only the time you elected to come back. Anyone who came back right away should get full LOS. IMO. Min day will just mean the junior guys are going to be doing red eyes imbedded in regular trips, they're not going away but I would like an override for them. They are brutal.

mainlineAF 08-27-2017 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by Mover (Post 2420415)
Envoy gives hotel rooms to its commuters 4 times per month. Our own regional treats its pilots better.



Let that sink in.



Envoys payscale also tops out at 106/hr with a minor 401k match while AA is 323/hr with 16% DC.

I know our contract needs work but comparing it to envoy or any other regional is laughable.


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