A responsibility is only as good as the ethics backing it up.

My regional had ALPA, and they were horrible, but I honestly think APA is worse.

Our president makes snarky little statements about which side 'got harmed more' in the merger (he honestly thinks it's the side that supported a full-on TWA style staple.)

You can't fix that kind of crap.

I'm just afraid the same guys will get elected with ALPA.

No group proposed a TWA style staple.

Explain what he meant with his remark, please.

(Clearly, someone in his position shouldn't be making any such statements, but if he meant some other group was more harmed-which one, and how?)

Your tune will change. I promise.

I agree with this. I understand the frustration some have with APA but looking to ALPA to solve those issues will only maintain those same issues at the LEC and MEC level while adding to the mix, the antics and political self serving National Officers as well. Much good can come from a widespread grass roots effort to get involved at the LEC level and it will filter up to the MEC level. Handing the keys to our house over to ALPA National, hoping they will clean it, will only be trading one set of problems for another bigger set. If no one is willing to run against these "undesirable LEC/MEC Officers" and change the culture at those levels, nothing will change by going to ALPA. Even ALPA will tell you that they are not a National Union. They are an Association of collective-individual MECs.

I would imagine being represented by ALPA at a regional is a vastly different experience than the biggest legacy airline was ALPA.

Completely uninvolved observer of your situation but:

You'd have the "national" organization step in and trump the interests of a pilot group that even you said were "improving their own contract" but at the same time you argue that APA is better because it's not responsible to anyone other than it's own pilots????

So the pilots who negotiated a raise and improvement in their QOL had no right to their own self determination, but you at APA are somehow granted that benefit.... hmmm.

ALPA, APA, SWAPA, etc all look out for their own groups. ALPA just has an overall commitment to the profession as well when it comes to regulations effecting safety, qol, and the various legislative proposals that come down the line.

ALPA National is not there to prevent any one pilot group from improving their lot to protect another's. That's why the regional model is/was the bane of pilot labor going back to the creation of the first scope clause.

APA didn't look at the LUS or AWA contracts before, what makes you think they will look at them now?

That's crazy sounding but seems true.

It was no mistake that all the good stuff is gone. The west had good rigs. The east had many other good work rules. Both were stripped out. That sort of stuff doesn't happen by accident.

Most contracts used current book as a baseline. The JCBA started over from sub-mesa work rules. Not sure where they dreamed up most of this crap. Maybe Aeroflot.

It's sad that the world's largest airline is comparing our work rules to the very worst regional rules which have ever existed...... But that's the case. APA is the reason.

Bingo, spot on.

ALPA Legacy representation is night and day different than ALPA regional representation. If ALPA Legay was such a bad deal, surely the UAL and DAL pilots would have contracts as crappy as AAL.

It is long past due for the AA pilot group to seriously look at ALPA representation. APA has long been broken and our contracts have reflected that.

I also believe that 1) the same folks would NOT run for office, we'd get new leadership and 2) the AAL membership would be completely re-invigorated and re-motivated with this change.