The other thing needing fixing is this red/redder bs. I wanna drop whatever I need to drop. Even LCCs have better rules about it. The only green trip I have ever seen is a 1 day.

I think it’s safe to say after reading through this thread that U.S. Airways and America West had way better work rules than LAA but with way less pay. Accurate?

We need to fix the LAA work rules, like, yesterday. Pilots here need to stop falling all over themselves over just pay rates.

To put it in perspective, I'd be a 6th year pay Airbus CA at LUS right now making...$117/hr.

Way less pay is an understatement.

There were a few workrules that were nice, but they added up to little. Example, as a DH on reserve it went above guarantee. There was no line guarantee except for the last trip of the month. Reserves tended to work less because they were over staffed (pilots were super cheap to have on hand). Schedule wise you could drop/swap trips within two days, but that was a function of just how overstaffed we were. Overall I don't really recall anything in particular that stuck out as being stellar.

Hands down the biggest increase in QOL would be a fix to red/redder. I don't expect to be able to drop my entire schedule but it would be nice to be able to at least swap things around. Hands down this is my biggest frustration with our contract. I really don't want much more $, since ~50% of the pay increase leaves the door in taxes. We would get way more bang for the buck increasing QOL items and not pay.

I would like to investigate bankruptcy proof deferred compensation as well.

Hopefully we'll see less of that as the pilot group gets younger. I feel like the newer blood is more dialed into where we stand in relation to our peers, and the recent union vote shows increasing dissatisfaction with "that's the way we've always done it".

I'm with Name User and Arado with the red/redder situation being the prime problem with our QOL. I'm a 6th year guy in LGA on the 737 so I have it better than most when it comes to schedule flexibility, but it seems to me that this is something we should be able to fix without it costing the company all that much money, and therefore negotiating capital on our end.

Simple. APA has a history of fighting for one or two broad general goals... those are, 1) protect total jobs instead of THE job, and b) focus on pay rates and let the rest go by the wayside. These are areas that Delta and United ALPA have figured out long ago.

As a result, APA has never properly fought for hotel language, trip protection/ownership, premium, double dipping when bought off trips, j/s weight protection....etc, etc.

So for trip trading and drops, which is the example above, APA has ALWAYS allowed the company to dictate the terms on trip trades and drops, because APA doesn’t fight for those things the way the others do.. because APA doesn’t deem it as important as protecting those almighty pay rates.

APA is firmly stuck in the 1960s mindset and refuses to adapt. This is why we’ve always played second (third, fourth?) fiddle to everyone else, and will continue to do so under APA.

This is also why the APA model is way past broken and why we need to switch to ALPA...if anything, to start anew with new union governance, policies, and industry standards...which legacy ALPA is very familiar with. It would also “break the APA chains of the past” and keep us way more connected with the UAL and DAL contracts.

To be fair, most of the ALPA critics (including myself) are from regional carriers. I am beginning to wonder whether there is a significant difference between legacy and regional ALPA.

How is it not true?

I am on a preassigned 10am RAP for the month. On prior trip they fly me until 9:45am on my day off. I lost the night home in my own bed, missed my Dr appointment on a scheduled day off (get nothing for losing my day off, no extra pay or return day off), of course I don't live in a trailer in the airport parking lot so it takes a while to get home (so lose until around noon on day OFF), then start at 10am RAP again anyway like normal. Well, you are the only one avail so we can schedule reserves until noon on days off.. WTF? It's ridiculous they can do this. They do it all the time now, especially with redeye finishes at 6am..

Long call gets a benefit with the shift, but for a short call it doesn't help.

Wholeheartedly agree here. This is a glaring failure within our contract. I live within 60 miles of my hub airport, so I'm not a commuter, and yet there's still no way I (if I were on Reserve) I would be less than angry as hell to be scheduled into a day off - just because they can!

That has to go away.:mad:

Arado

there is a reason Delta and united consistently get kick a$$ contracts... because legacy alpa (warts and all) caters to the big 2 and fedex (big 3 if we join) with their massive resources assets and negotiators (much of which APA hires out for our own negotiations.)

It is not if but when the pilots of AA need to rejoin ALPA... APA is broken beyond repair due to the governance, structure and “stuck in the past” mentality. We need this change to snap out of the vicious cycle we’re caught in.

If EF and the current BOD fail in getting us an ILC in this day and age of massive leverage in our favor... then we’ll know it’s way past due.

I mainly agree with you, but what good would ALPA on property be if you have the same db's running it? It's like the chicken & the egg thing: APA is broken because of the people running it, and vice versa.

ALPA is not without faults of course, just look what a "recent" merger between two ALPA carriers have caused: years of misery.

I believe the biggest drive of change is the generational shift. Let's see if that is going to happen under APA or ALPA.

I think that, even with the same people running the LECs and MECs, there would be a difference due to the different type of structure, governance and accountability that exists with ALPA that does not exist at APA.

Plus these same leaders would now have much better and instant access to the resources and assets ALPA provides that APA doesn’t have.

All of that would make a difference in my opinion .

In the interim, I agree... let’s see what this next APA generation accomplishes.

As long as ALPA continues to allow the whipsaw of the regionals it represents for the gain of the major carriers they won’t have my support. I am however willing to entertain solutions to fix that problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dilly dilly!

That's just bat-**** crazy. What union in their right mind would allow this?

We need ALPA. It’s not perfect but it has to be better than APA. The flying into day off with no repercussions, constant reassignment, no double time, archaic representation, safety in numbers, etc. far outweighs the negatives. What ALPA carrier is envious of our contract? Yes there are some nice things. Sit time pay, IMAX if you can figure out how to play that game. Seriously we need to get the headquarters out of DFW. One of our former APA negotiators is now a negotiator for the company. Please stop the nonsense.

So... what you’re saying is we need a better contract and better union leadership?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with AA73, we need ALPA. I’m not swayed by former regional ALPA pilot’s arguments. It’s a not applicable here.

At my regional ALPA sucked because they only cared about the mainlines so we don't want it at our mainlin... Wait nevermind.

We don’t need second class pilots any more than we need second class people. If ALPA really cared about their dues paying regional pilots (they don’t) they would help them unite under contracts where they can’t be whipsawed against each other. Pay would go up and the likes of United, Delta and American would hard pressed to pay those rates, bringing more flying back in house. The only group ALPA’s two tier system helps is management.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So that's why APA is better?

I’m not saying APA is perfect. At 2 years in I haven’t begun to see all the dysfunction in its finest form. But at least APA fights for the interests of American pilots. ALPA fights for United and Delta. If we join they will fight for us too, but they will do it at the expense of thousands of its own regional members.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The last thing APA does is fight for the interests of American pilots.

Should read, “APA fights for the interests of the senior guys that run it.”

I don’t know who or what ALPA fights for, but I’m reminded every day of how much better the UAL and DAL contracts are compared to ours. I’m pretty dang sure if we merged with ALPA we’d be the largest group there and would get to not only tap into what Delta and United Pilots enjoy but also have a pretty big influence on how ALPA is run.

You haven’t been here long enough. You’ll figure it out shortly.

Bingo. At least thats been my experience with APA in my 20ish years.

So with all this DC bs, I got kinda sidetracked what EF's position on a potential ALPA merger is...

Since he ran on the platform “Upgrade APA”, I think he’s currently focusing on trying to fix our current union. He’s a sharp guy though and not a politician. If he can be convinced APA is irreparably damaged, he’ll follow the membership’s desire to explore the benefits of a merger with ALPA.

paraphrased, iirc...

Neither necessarily "Pro APA" nor "Pro ALPA"

"Pro Pilot"

Update the BOD study
Study the results at the BOD
Share results with membership
Poll/Listen to membership
Proceed as directed

In concert with the BOD, who actually has and has demonstrated all of the ability to do or not do - mostly not do, comtrary to the promises made - any of the above.

The President has no authority to do anythung on his own.

One of ALPA’s problems was they didn’t fight for anything. Every time it came time to take a stand, they just said grieve it and we will see what the arbitrator says. They are still individual MEC’s that short of financing didn’t do anything to support us. In my short time at AA, we are a much stronger union, just not as large. I believe APA will be effective in securing a good contract. After all, we are APA. Stay engaged

The only thing I like more about ALPA was centralized communications. I received so many emails from APA and committees over the last few months I finally went in and selected all to stop and reported as spam on gmail. Thankfully it seems to have stopped. But there was just too much info from too many people and viewpoints across the spectrum. The straw that broke the camels back was 14 emails in 10 days, and they were long drawn out ones with nonstop text blocks and little breaks. I also can't stand the "union" rhetoric.

I have to agree. I like centralized communication. The majority of emails I have received seem very “hip shot”. And, like you, I am not a fan of sabre rattling.

Lmao...keep watching you’ll learn soon enough.

It's actually been pretty quiet the last couple of days...

If you had ALPA at a regional, your preception of ALPA as a whole is a little skewed. I came from an ALPA regional as well and hated them. But you have to understand the amount of money a regional ALPA versus a major one get in dues. And then consider that half the regionals guys are just getting the resume boost unfortunately and really don’t care enough to do much. And while National should fight harder for the interest of all pilot groups, pilots with every airline would be up in arms if they were funding the regionals pretty heavily. Just the ugly truth about it. National does share its resources still, but the money just isn’t there for lower paying ALPA airlines to get more than they are right now.

I always love it when "National should fight harder" for the interests of the RJ contract carriers.... How should they do that when each MEC is supposed to "fight" for itself. Bottom line, without scope (of which the contract "regional" carriers have NONE) you really have no leverage with which to negotiate/demand anything.
What can NATIONAL ALPA do besides refuse to endorse any particular contract deal? If the individual MEC's agree (for whatever reason/interest they have), what is national to do..... pull their union certification? To what end? All National can do is pretty much what they do now... provide info and resources for the contract carrier pilots with no scope the info and support to fight for themselves, but without scope, history has shown that any one contract carrier that gets out over it's skis to far has just set in motion the beginning of their demise.

ALPA National can (should) refuse to let one MEC whipsaw the others. Literally standing there and celebrating one MEC choosing to undercut the others to get planes, or actively trying to intimidate an MEC to “play ball” with management, is NOT what ALPA was founded to accomplish.

Exactly. Every time ALPO allows another whipsaw at the RJ level, they just lower the bar another notch for the whole piloting profession, making it cheaper and increasing managements incentive to outsource more and more flying to the “RJ” operators.
I’m sick of this “mainline ALPA is different” crap. ALPA National is one organization and one of the National officers is a regional pilot. The fact that they choose to disregard a whole segment of their dues paying membership tells me all I need to know about those crooked scumbags. I want nothing to do with that organization ever again.
ALPA will make no difference here at AA. The same guys are going to be running the show. It’ll just be under a different name, and our dues money (likely more than we’re paying now) will just go into the giant ALPA money pit and contribute to the unbelievable waste that occurs at ALPA National in Herndon.

AA has many more RJs than delta or United and a pilot contract that is vastly inferior in compensation and work rules. We also have fewer pilots to fly more airplanes than delta. Sounds like we are trailing in every aspect. Thank god we don’t have ALPA. (Sarcasm intended).

LGA Town Hall
 

United 44%
American 39%
Delta 34%

Some quick numbers of regional feed percentage of total fleet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed we are trailing in every aspect. However, ALPA allowed the biggest ****show race to the bottom in recent memory among our wholly owned regionals making them dirt cheap and prime to put all that flying into. Getting ALPA on property here will do little to fix our problems if it’s the same people with the same attitudes running the union. Plenty more of our money will go into the big bloated bureaucracy of ALPA though.

I also don’t think you understand how ALPA works. National HQ doesn’t write out the contract in behalf of the airlines MEC, it’s the other way around. If Delta or United ratifies a lousy contract ALPA will still sign off on it. There is no muscle flexing from HQ. Never in a million years would ALPA have pilots from all of its carriers put pressure on anyone else to leverage a good contract. Informational picketing? Scary. Each MEC is in it for themselves and ALPA just collects the money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I understand perfectly how ALPA works. You just explained EXACTLY why ALPA is worthless. We’re on our own anyway, so we might as well keep our own money and fight for ourselves.

IF ALPA worked differently, and IF they could get all members from all pilot groups to work together to raise the bar at the same time, there would be some advantage. As of now, it’s just a big bloated organization that makes millions off of the backs of its members while providing negligible benefit.