LGA Town Hall
05-23-2019, 04:12 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,094
If you listen carefully during one of the questions about recalls it addresses one of my points about this combined IAM TWU agreement. Several airports had hit cliffs requiring increased staffing due to mainline flight numbers. This is a big deal. As more mainline flights go in and out of stations, it may require swapping Envoy for mainline staffing AND hiring other support staff such as facilities maintenance and is a huge component of our costs. 1/4 of the company is union ground handling and facility maintenance. Yes we have unionized ground maintenance workers who work on jetways and ground power etc. This is one reason the company continues to pursue using Envoy RJs over mainline 100 seaters or even increased jets of any type. I remember hearing somewhere Isom I believe stating they were happy with the fleet size moving forward and would simply up-gauge as needed in the future.
Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.
IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.
Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!
I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.
On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.
I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.
Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.
IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.
Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!
I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.
On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.
I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.
05-23-2019, 05:25 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,094
Originally Posted by DarinFred
So, what are you going to do when another union strikes?
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/20/b...northwest.html
05-23-2019, 07:02 PM
#8
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 271
Originally Posted by Name User
If you listen carefully during one of the questions about recalls it addresses one of my points about this combined IAM TWU agreement. Several airports had hit cliffs requiring increased staffing due to mainline flight numbers. This is a big deal. As more mainline flights go in and out of stations, it may require swapping Envoy for mainline staffing AND hiring other support staff such as facilities maintenance and is a huge component of our costs. 1/4 of the company is union ground handling and facility maintenance. Yes we have unionized ground maintenance workers who work on jetways and ground power etc. This is one reason the company continues to pursue using Envoy RJs over mainline 100 seaters or even increased jets of any type. I remember hearing somewhere Isom I believe stating they were happy with the fleet size moving forward and would simply up-gauge as needed in the future.
Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.
IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.
Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!
I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.
On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.
I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.
Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.
IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.
Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!
I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.
On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.
I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.
05-24-2019, 04:38 AM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Name User
If you listen carefully during one of the questions about recalls it addresses one of my points about this combined IAM TWU agreement. Several airports had hit cliffs requiring increased staffing due to mainline flight numbers. This is a big deal. As more mainline flights go in and out of stations, it may require swapping Envoy for mainline staffing AND hiring other support staff such as facilities maintenance and is a huge component of our costs. 1/4 of the company is union ground handling and facility maintenance. Yes we have unionized ground maintenance workers who work on jetways and ground power etc. This is one reason the company continues to pursue using Envoy RJs over mainline 100 seaters or even increased jets of any type. I remember hearing somewhere Isom I believe stating they were happy with the fleet size moving forward and would simply up-gauge as needed in the future.
Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.
IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.
Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!
I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.
On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.
I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.
Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.
IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.
Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!
I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.
On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.
I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.
You look at them and think some of their proposals and asks are silly, but I can promise you that they look at pilots the same way... with some prima donna stuff in our contract too. Do you want them to support us when we are battling it out with management or not?
I understand the importance with seeing both side's point of view in situations like this.... but I certainly agree with the mechanics on this one. The company is downright greedy in outsourcing their jobs. The company would outsource everything up to the B777/A330 to the "regionals" if they could. Would you let them, or put your foot down and fight?
05-24-2019, 05:43 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 269
Look at the age of these Mechanics. I think they have very little to lose. They figure if the company doesn’t give them what they want then we shut her down and walk into the sunset. Maybe our pilot group will be in the same situation when our battle drags on. We are an older work group and hopefully have some money saved up for the battle ahead. I could easily walk away from this company if it comes down to that. I don’t want that but we have to be prepared to walk. Save, save, save.
For those of you that haven’t been here very long. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Assume the good deals we have today will be gone tomorrow. This industry is brutal. Be prepared to have a life style change. I have always lived like it could stop tomorrow. That has enabled me and my family to survive two furloughs and a bankruptcy. My assumption when I started was the retirement would go away. I have never not maxed out the 401k. Now I’m rich and can not give a crap what management says and does. As my friend calls it his “F@#k you fund”. Meaning he always wants to have enough in the bank to say F@#k you to his boss.
This is going to get very ugly very fast this summer. Watch out.
For those of you that haven’t been here very long. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Assume the good deals we have today will be gone tomorrow. This industry is brutal. Be prepared to have a life style change. I have always lived like it could stop tomorrow. That has enabled me and my family to survive two furloughs and a bankruptcy. My assumption when I started was the retirement would go away. I have never not maxed out the 401k. Now I’m rich and can not give a crap what management says and does. As my friend calls it his “F@#k you fund”. Meaning he always wants to have enough in the bank to say F@#k you to his boss.
This is going to get very ugly very fast this summer. Watch out.
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