Fr8rdog

OK, as you can see from the age of the airplane in my avitar, I have a dog in this hunt. I'd like to hear from all you youngsters out there. Other than the obvious rationale - I want you out of my way so I can upgrade - what is the justification for opposing the decision of the MEC as explained in the recent report on the town hall meeting?

Jaxman187

My King(I mean MEC President) speaks, thinks, and interprets for me.

Los1

I, as I hope you, have made all my plans, financial and otherwise, based on the age 60 rule. You have gotten better lines, upgraded and ultimately been a widebody captain because of this rule... now you want 5 more years (maybe more) on my back...now, to answer your ?; you have got to be ****t$ng me!!
Los1
PS- I have tried not to post anything on the age 60 debate, try to learn more, maybe understand...but your post has sent me over the edge...get out
PPS-sorry about getting emotional, now that I have it out of my system, at least for today, we can return back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Purpledriver

Fr8rdog....I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the issue of older guys staying around is huge. Look back at your career and see what kind of $$$ you would have lost from a slow down like this. We will all see things in our careers that slow us down or change the amount of money we can make, but this one we still might have a chance (very small chance) to influence. It's all about greed...greed on the old guys part for wanting to stay on top of the list for and additional 5 years....greed on the junior guys part for wanting to move up and get to the top of the list. Personally, I just don't understand why a guy would want to work past 60. Retire. Enjoy the benefits of the CBA we have at FedEx. My biggest problem with age 60 / 65 is I don't want to have to fight for the right to retire at 60 without a penalty in the upcoming contracts. It's a fact of life that the company will want to change the CBA to start the 3% penalty from age 65....we will have to either take it in the a$$ on that one, or give up something else to keep it the way it is. I'm glad this program is working for the old guys, but in the long run the junior guys will pay for this one.

NoHaz

"As an aside, Capt Webb commented on FedEx’s current policy in terms of allowing pilots over 60 to move to the backseat without a bid. He stated that this is an extra-contractual event and ALPA’s position is that since it isn’t displacing anyone ALPA doesn’t have an issue with it."

So another unilateral decision without consulting membership. What about everyone displaced when the over 60's come back to a Capt slot from their backseat without a bid?

Deuce130

I thought he said that noone would go back to a CA seat without a bid. I personally think the Age 65 rule sucks. I wish it never would've reared its ugly head. Now that it appears inevitable, however, it's time to minimize the impact. I, for one, hope the upcoming MOAB covers 2+ years so the guys bidding back to the FE seat have time to enjoy the crew position they want so bad. Maybe 2 years of flipping switches and doing walkarounds will take some of the fire out of them. FDX has one of the greatest gigs going right now - retire at 60 with a pension. I personally don't understand why anyone would want to stick around as an S/O when thier retirement is almost as much as their pay would be, but others at the company feel otherwise. They're all free to make their own decisions within the rules of the game, but I hope they never get back to the left seat. Nothing personal, mind you, I'm just hoping watching some 60+ guys be disappointed will discourage others from sticking around.

Back to the topic: I thought Dave Webb's explanation for his actions was pretty good.

NoHaz

Captain Webb then explained the MEC’s position on supporting the ability of S/O’s over 60 returning to the front seat when legislation changes. At the core of the argument is that the CBA protects all crewmembers equally. The CBA clearly states that crewmembers are able to exercise all seniority rights up until such time that they are terminated or retire. As such, we have a moral, ethical and legal obligation to protect those rights provided by our CBA.

CBA protects all crewmembers equally??? How about the obligation to protect the seniority rights of those under 59. Looking at the retirement charts and ALPA birthday lists has always been an expectation of future seniority. You can't funnel over 60 guys to the back without a bid and then lobby to get them back up front again without an negative impact on everyone else's seniority.

Fr8rdog

I really didn't want to send anybody over the edge with this thread. It makes perfect sense to me that a junior guy would want a senior guy to retire so that he/she could move up the ladder. What I was after was some thoughts as to how we could have changed the outcome. From what everyone is saying, this thing is a done deal - when, not if.

If over 70% of our group want the retirement age to stay at 60, could we not make that a "cornerstone" of our next contract? I don't know, just posting a suggestion to my own question.

I'll stay if the opportunity is given to me because I will only have a little over 10 years with the company when I turn 60. It's just a financial decision for me as well. My expectation was to retire at 60 because those were the rules when I got hired. It looks like the rules are changing. We would have taken the job if the retirement age was 55 or 75, so I'm not getting the "expectations" argument.

Flame shield up.

NoHaz

expectation is that current laws (age 60) and CBA will simply be enforced and not worked around in anticipation of "imminent" change

Purpledriver

One thing that older military guys (by the way..I'm a Navy guy) seem to forget is that when they stay in and get a retirement out of the military....the military was their career. The airline thing for a retired O-5 or O-6 is a post-retirement job. For those of us that took the risk of getting out and starting over, the airlines is our career. That's a big difference. Same story for those that sucked up years of flying jobs on the civilian side making less than the guy flippin burgers at MickyDs. I'm tired of hearing the lame arguement of only having 10-14 years here so they need to stick around....it's 2% a year period...there is no magic new level of retirement out there if you hit 20 years...basically you will just collect that retirement check for a fewer number of years if you work past 60. Last time I checked the FAA isn't working on a solution to the average life span of a pilot. Take the money and run.