Originally Posted by m78fl370 (Post 2832622)

Exactly. Every time ALPO allows another whipsaw at the RJ level, they just lower the bar another notch for the whole piloting profession, making it cheaper and increasing managements incentive to outsource more and more flying to the “RJ” operators.
I’m sick of this “mainline ALPA is different” crap. ALPA National is one organization and one of the National officers is a regional pilot. The fact that they choose to disregard a whole segment of their dues paying membership tells me all I need to know about those crooked scumbags. I want nothing to do with that organization ever again.
ALPA will make no difference here at AA. The same guys are going to be running the show. It’ll just be under a different name, and our dues money (likely more than we’re paying now) will just go into the giant ALPA money pit and contribute to the unbelievable waste that occurs at ALPA National in Herndon.

Originally Posted by m78fl370 (Post 2832765)

I understand perfectly how ALPA works. You just explained EXACTLY why ALPA is worthless. We’re on our own anyway, so we might as well keep our own money and fight for ourselves.



IF ALPA worked differently, and IF they could get all members from all pilot groups to work together to raise the bar at the same time, there would be some advantage. As of now, it’s just a big bloated organization that makes millions off of the backs of its members while providing negligible benefit.

Originally Posted by Smoke Toliet (Post 2832801)

What a logical and rational well thought out post not allowing emotion to distort the facts.

APA...it’s totally working

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by m78fl370 (Post 2832765)

I understand perfectly how ALPA works. You just explained EXACTLY why ALPA is worthless. We’re on our own anyway, so we might as well keep our own money and fight for ourselves.

IF ALPA worked differently, and IF they could get all members from all pilot groups to work together to raise the bar at the same time, there would be some advantage. As of now, it’s just a big bloated organization that makes millions off of the backs of its members while providing negligible benefit.

Originally Posted by AAL24 (Post 2832898)

Every organization has its flaws. The world isn’t perfect. I prefer to go by results. Over the last 20 years ALPA has consistently delivered superior results. We can hang our hats on ideology and always trail Delta and United saying at least we don’t belong to corrupt ALPA. Or we can make a business decision.

Originally Posted by aa73 (Post 2830811)

Arado

there is a reason Delta and united consistently get kick a$$ contracts... because legacy alpa (warts and all) caters to the big 2 and fedex (big 3 if we join) with their massive resources assets and negotiators (much of which APA hires out for our own negotiations.)

It is not if but when the pilots of AA need to rejoin ALPA... APA is broken beyond repair due to the governance, structure and “stuck in the past” mentality. We need this change to snap out of the vicious cycle we’re caught in.

If EF and the current BOD fail in getting us an ILC in this day and age of massive leverage in our favor... then we’ll know it’s way past due.

Originally Posted by aa73 (Post 2830811)

Arado

there is a reason Delta and united consistently get kick a$$ contracts... because legacy alpa (warts and all) caters to the big 2 and fedex (big 3 if we join) with their massive resources assets and negotiators (much of which APA hires out for our own negotiations.)

It is not if but when the pilots of AA need to rejoin ALPA... APA is broken beyond repair due to the governance, structure and “stuck in the past” mentality. We need this change to snap out of the vicious cycle we’re caught in.

If EF and the current BOD fail in getting us an ILC in this day and age of massive leverage in our favor... then we’ll know it’s way past due.

Originally Posted by Buzzlightyear (Post 2833391)

You have a few valid points but I say drain the senior swamp at APA and put in some street fighting bloodied knuckle former regional MEC types and see what we can do for ourselves instead of trying to look to a system or institution to bail us out.

Originally Posted by A330FoodCritic (Post 2833411)

Wasn't the NC picked by DC? For the past few years hasn't the BOD been in DC's hip pocket?

Originally Posted by flyinawa (Post 2833853)

Until he was replaced by the board, EF was the chairman of the NC so he knows what’s up. We have leverage if we are able to properly apply it.

Originally Posted by flyinawa (Post 2834175)

(Yawn) Keep fighting those windmills, chief.

Originally Posted by 206321 (Post 2825869)

So pilots can understand what management is trying to do to the mechanics:

For every position retired or resigned, they have the right to OUTSOURCE that work to ABC Airplane Maintenance Company.... or Eagle, or whoever.

In other words if there are 30,000 mechanic jobs right now and 1000 retire this year, next year there are 29,000 jobs and the rest is outsourced. It would continue down that slippery slope.

Imagine that if every time a senior pilot hit age 65 and retired, the slot that a new hire would take to replace went straight to the regionals.

The seniority list and pilot group would shrink daily. The seniority list would be half the size in about 5 years.... giving all those jobs outsourced to the regionals. Eventually there would be no mainline jobs left... they would all be outsourced.

Originally Posted by flyinawa (Post 2833853)

Until he was replaced by the board, EF was the chairman of the NC so he knows what’s up. We have leverage if we are able to properly apply it.

Originally Posted by Route66 (Post 2834182)

Yeah. And you AWA guys keep enjoying the seniority you didn’t earn.

Originally Posted by cactusmike (Post 2835919)

Too funny.

Yep, I am. Actually I am in the spot that two arbitration panels put me in, so yeah, I guess I did earn it.

I’ve been a captain on 737 or larger aircraft for essentially the same company since 1990. And held 757 captain since 2004. Since you guys sat stagnant for 20 years and could never hold the left seat I guess the arbitrators got a few things right.

It’s not rocket science, and I’ve been lucky compared to a lot of guys. You East guys that are still whining need to **** and emulate the TWA guys. These are the guys that really got screwed and I never hear them being negative. They go on and do a professional job and are great to fly with. Luckily the former east guys I fly with are nothing like you.

Originally Posted by Route66 (Post 2837561)

Funny, but I haven't gotten on ANYBODY'S "no fly" list. I've been a Captain on the A320 and B737 most of MY career. You WEST guys didn't earn it. Period. What they say to your face and what they REALLY say behind your back is something to think about. Personally, EF is the scab you brought to the table and you guys getting a contract by the end of the year, methinks, is because the +3000 votes EF/DC didn't get is going to surprise you.

The company knows ALL this and the "below the line" guys are going to soon realize that neither EF nor DC are going to do what you hope they'll do because the APA is the COMPANIES "B!TITCH.

You AWA guys are

Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 2838768)

Are you guys still gonna be talking east/west trash in the retirement home?